Jetjok

You're kidding right! I sat in a window seat for many years before and know what I'm talking about. You, on the other hand seem to have a very cavaliere attitude. One that will get you into trouble, both with your company as well as with the FAA, if you, God forbid, get into some sort of aircraft accident. All this over the fact that yu don't like to sit through a long captains briefing. Just amazing.

Phantom Flyer

After being a team member on two NTSB accident investigations, I'll throw in my two cents and anyone can have the pennies.

If you ever get involved in an accident or incident and find yourself sitting around that big mahogany table in Washington and notice that you're the only one without a glass of water, that take-off briefing just might be important. Yea, I know, I've been strapped in a metal tube for a long time also and agree the recitation of the Magna Carta is somewhat useless, but them damn lawyers have ended more than one career over something even less critical to safe flight.

Why not just make your take-off briefing like a woman's bathing suit. Long enough to cover the subject matter but short enough to make it interesting. "As previously briefed" (assuming you have flown together before and everyone KNOWS their SOP's) and the heading is ____, up to ____feet on the Big Boy Two Departure and what are we gonna do if we loose an engine after Vr.... Any questions ????

Just my two cents.

Boogie Nights

The point of briefings is to get everyone on the same sheet of music.
If you have never flown with some guy, you don't know what his/her expirience is. Just beacuse they have been found suitable by the company does not mean your co-pilot is not a knuckle head. Lots of accidents happen because people are not on the same sheet of music.

Tanker Driver, post about 20-30 minute briefs shows his lack of attention. In his case it is a mission brief, reviewing all mission details. When you are refueling a blacked out B1 at 14,000 MSL with 10,000' mountains about everybody needs to be on the same sheet of music.

I believe briefing should be leg or mission specific. Also any variations on standard techniques need to be briefed. Hey if you have flown with a guy many times, and he/she is competent, then "Standard" will work.

AN example I have is taking off at night near max gross weight for McConnell AFB to Cairo Egypt. Capt said "standard" for his takeoff brief. Co-pilot set power and we were not accelerating like we should have. I was in the jump trying to figure out why, around V1 I started yelling for the guys in the seat to push it up. The co-pilot had set 10% less on the N1 bugs than he should have. The captain rotated at 1,000' remaining 3 knots below rotate on a 12,000' runway. A review and cross check of the N1 settings would have prevented this. Note: it is procedue to rotate with a 1000 remaining if you are not at rotate speed. It is also procedure to brief takeoff settings. I have other stories like the crew that took off at Grand Forks with their speed brakes up, or the FO who cutoff all 4 engs at 2700 MSL while bringing them to idle. Brief what you want but when you are in charge make sure everyone knows what the heck is going on. If you survive then you will be held responsible

Be safe, be specific, and not wordy. You guys are right, in that if no one is listening then why brief. I encourage you FO, SO to listen to what the capt says, because he is just as likely to kill you as you him

Fly the plane

Boogie

TonyC

I got the impression that Tanker Driver was referring to the Takeoff portion fo the Mission Briefing. I've witnessed Take-off brifings that long, but never a Mission Briefing that short.

I mean, really... the Co-pilot reads the numbers off the Takeoff Data form that he calculated, and that might not even be used the next day if the weather varies even slightly from the forecast. The Pilot describes the individual hand movements that will occur to effect a copilot takeoff. You'll do this, and he'll say that, then I'll move my hand here, and you put your here, and... as if we'll recall this when the engines start roaring and we're pressed back in our seats. If we have runaway trim, I want you to do this, and then that guy will do that, and if that doesn't take care of it, I want the fourth guy to reach up and pull those two circuit breakers. If we see _____ before 80 knots, we'll abort, and this is how we'll abort. Blah blah blah. If any of these things happen between Min Accel Check Speed and S1, we'll do this and that. If such and such happens after S1, we'll do thus and so, unless we're taking off to the south, in which case we'll do so and thus.


Those were extreme, and covered an incredible amount of information. The best ones were concise and left everyone knowing what was expected of him. The bad ones put people to sleep, and were therefore counterproductive.



1) Comply with your Company's procedures.

2) Communicate expectations

3) Make sure the other guy knows what to do


That's it.



.

HSLD

That's perfect. The caveat here IMO is that the crew is qualified, competent, and current.

cactusmike

I always brief where we are going, who we talk to, how fast we need to go and how much thrust we need to get there. And I finish with "I'll fly and you fix it" for my leg or "you fly and I'll fix it" for his leg.

HalinTexas

My brief to my FO's was: Don't scare me, don't violate me, and don't let me f@ck up!

I emphasize that last part, particularly to those that I haven't flown with before. Open communication is the key. I may be many things, like an *********, but I'm not (was not) an ********* captain.

Most of the briefing should be done after the clearance and before push back, e.g. runway (which one? and WX issues), reduction (engine power), routing, restrictions (noise and mountains), return (T/O alt. and/or special engine out procedures). Lots of stuff covered in the "before start checklist." ATA's isn't as long as some others, but it's adequate. The "single engine/delayed start" procedures are stupid. There, I said it.

"Standard briefing" usually covers what you've done in the sim to get to the line, i.e. normal T/O procedures, engine failures before and after V1, etc. If you fly like you train, and the training is good, then the briefing should be short. On the worst of days, I can't see it taking more than 30-45 seconds. It's always followed by "any questions?"

For some reason we like to make this job harder than it needs to be.