Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Specifically Rolls and the DFW airport board. Rolls wants their cash and better risk, and the DFW Airport board wants at least two major carriers in DFW post CH11.

Even AMR's attorney is picking interesting words.

One other scenario has you keeping AMR intact and the rest of the industry consolidating around you well you are in protection. The end result is that the creditors will not have better risk or better revenue from your trip though CH11.

I know pilots hate to see their fiefdoms attacked, and DAL pilots were and are no different. CH11 sucks, and trust me, they will come at APA will an iron fist. If AMR is going to be a stand alone who eventually has a merger post CH11, the employees are going to take it in the shorts big time. Even then it will not come close to solving the issues that AMR faces on the revenue side.

Just to get close to the revenue generation possibilities of UAL and DAL, you would need one more domestic code share; B6, and two or three international JV's. Not alliance partners, but profit sharing partners like AF/KLM/AZ are to DAL. Because you are in CH11 they would not be favored to the APA side. That big of a hit on top of Horton's desire to kill not just bottom end scope, but top and middle end means that you would have to give up the farm to keep AMR intact. In the end that would start another round of concessions at the other carriers. Its an ugly death spiral. It too is quite possible, and as a result we would see a second decade of horrible pay. In the end it comes down to the APA pilots deciding how much they want to give, and then the creditors deciding if it is good enough to let their assets stay at AMR. This far past the traditional CH11 filings, it makes it quite uncertain if AMR will survive as an intact carrier.

Everyone thinks that these moves by the other carriers are head fakes. In the end they may not act,but they will reduce the effectiveness of AMR's debt slashing. That puts the pressure of softer targets like labor.

I much prefer that AMR is not where they are. It sucks for their employees, and the end result will hurt the entire piloting profession. The whole thing is far too late in the game.

Originally Posted by Gearjerk

Eaglefly,

First of all, I'm not your "dude". Hate that term, and when people use it, I assume they're of the preference of "alternative lifestyle". Don't get me wrong, it's all fine if you want to look at guys (dudes) instead of underboob and chicks like the rest of us on this board, but please don't push your flamboyant ways towards me or anyone else on this forum. I already have to deal with it in the military now that the Commander-in-Chief wanted their votes too.

Originally Posted by Gearjerk

Sir, you and I then have to agree to disagree. Calling the "RJ Explosion" a "denial" is, in my opinion, mislabeling how we've gotten where we are in the first place.

The ironic part about all of this is that Southwest Airlines, the organization that I truly blame for causing the "labor meltdown, race to the bottom" (toilet bowl and turd analogy) is now facing "higher" costs than all their domestic competitors. (Other than AA, of course, but that's soon to be seen as well.)

So, you see, I get a little "hot under the collar" when someone else says that they "could possibly see" American Airlines, a once and still great airline, coming out of bankruptcy, and once again lowering the bar for "industry standard wages".

Originally Posted by 80drvr

Please elaborate on Rolls wants their cash and the DFW airport board wants two major carriers in DFW post CH11. Is Rolls the lessor on stand alone engine leases? Has AMR filed for rejection of leases where Rolls is the lessor? What unsecured debts would Rolls be trying to lay claim to? Is Rolls on the Creditors Committee? DFW has plenty of capacity -- how does AMR CH11 impair the ability of DFW to attract new carriers? If AMR reduces capacity in DFW, it will be minor, and most likely offset by already announced incremental increases by other carriers (DAL, B6, Emirates).

Originally Posted by 80drvr

Please elaborate on Rolls wants their cash and the DFW airport board wants two major carriers in DFW post CH11. Is Rolls the lessor on stand alone engine leases? Has AMR filed for rejection of leases where Rolls is the lessor? What unsecured debts would Rolls be trying to lay claim to? Is Rolls on the Creditors Committee? DFW has plenty of capacity -- how does AMR CH11 impair the ability of DFW to attract new carriers? If AMR reduces capacity in DFW, it will be minor, and most likely offset by already announced incremental increases by other carriers (DAL, B6, Emirates).

Originally Posted by scambo1

Read the news. Rolls has gone public on this as has the DFW airport board - both since aa filed. It isn't his job to educate you.

Originally Posted by Gearjerk

First of all, I'm not your "dude". Hate that term, and when people use it, I assume they're of the preference of "alternative lifestyle". Don't get me wrong, it's all fine if you want to look at guys (dudes) instead of underboob and chicks like the rest of us on this board, but please don't push your flamboyant ways towards me or anyone else on this forum. I already have to deal with it in the military now that the Commander-in-Chief wanted their votes.

Originally Posted by shoelu

Are you honestly chastising someone for events that haven't even transpired? He said he is worried what will happen not that he supports lower wages.

"Hello kettle, this is the pot and you're black."

Originally Posted by newKnow

Gear,

I think you are reading a little too much into the use of the word "dude."





Anyways. Use of the word "dude" or not, I hope it's been established that no one want's American pilots to fly for regional wages.