mike734

Well the dream is dead. I started down the road to be a major airline pilot 25 years ago. Back then I wanted to be a heavy captain making about $120,000/yr. PanAm was my first choice but United was the way to go. Now 25 years later I am a MD-83 captain making about 145,000. I figure I should be making about 250,000 to have equal buying power. What ever the number, salaries have not come close to keeping up.

I have 15 years to go before my salary is reduced to 0. Of course I may get a pension but who knows? I have decided to get out and build a new career. I am going to go in to real estate full time. I know, I know, the bubble! Actually I do not intend to make money by investing. I will be a broker and eventually an owner of an agency. I figure they make money when people buy and sell regardless of the price. I will start out by flying as little as possible and working 4 days a week for a successful broker. Then when things get rolling I will take a LOA and try to make it work. We'll see.

I see no good news coming down the pike. This job is not the dream job it once was. If you are a capable person you should be able to make more than 150k/yr fairly easily and still be home most nights. Maybe even stay married. I can't encourage anyone to proceed down the path to become an airline pilot. The dream is dead.

SAABDriver

Sorry to lose good guys like you. This industry is crazy. I too wished of a large salary and a good living. Now I will be lucky if I ever break 100K.

The guys screening us at the airport make more than starting FO's at Natonal's....that is just wrong.

We have got to let the public know somehow!

Goodluck in real estate.....

A fellow pilot

Bengalsfan

What is the problem with a salary over $100k working 15 days a month? I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time seeing the struggle. I mean after 15-20 years in the airlines, your schedule has to be great, and $140k is nothing to spit at... my buddy is doing real estate in minneapolis, and he screams of the struggles doing that.

With places like FedEx, UPS and Southwest, you can find places to work where chances of a furlough are low. Plus, if you still have your job, making that kind of money through all of this, I can't imagine it getting much worse. so you sound safe to me. As for your pension... anyone who doesn't save/invest for their own retirement is an idiot... no one should rely strictly on a company to take care of their future... see Enron, or even the military in the mid 90's where they were forcing people out before their 20 years.!

Good luck, but throwing away a career making that kind of money doesn't sound like the best idea...

just an outsiders opinion...

take care

Sir James

Mike-

Sorry that you feel you've wasted your time in your aviation career. At your $145k/year job, maybe the steady drumbeat of negativism of your peers got to you? Because most aviators would be able to live comfortably on a W2 and schedules like you're currently earning. In fact, I would be intensely happy to trade shoes with you right this moment!

Good luck in your business ventures, but I predict you'll realize the grass isn't greener over there. You'll work more for unpredictable and varying levels of income month over month.

Check back with us and let us know how you're doing. I hope I'm wrong and that you've made a better career choice. Best of luck.

MartyMcFly

Hold on. Let me get this straight. You're making well over 100,000 a year and you are complaining about not getting paided enough? Not just over 100,000 but almost 150,000?!?! Yet, you are so disgusted with what you consider low pay that you are throwing it all away and leaving the industry?

You're nuts! Sorry, just my personal opinion.

WatchThis!

I know exactly what you're talking about - the money really doesn't matter when you don't enjoy the job. Piloting is just a job, it's no longer a career, its a job where the wages and benefits will just keep getting worse unless there are drastic changes in the way we as pilots do business. Pick up this month's issue of the IATA rag and you'll see where airline mgt. would like to see the pilot job go in terms of pay and benefits (it's not up in any category). With guys like Worth running ALPA (into the ground) I don't see a unified front coming anytime soon in terms of labor on the national level.

There are many many ways to make a living in this big world and none of them are worth a flip unless you enjoy what you do.

Good Luck, I know it's not an easy choice.

flaps 9

Did you dream of flying, or making money? Even in the Pan Am days there were only a FEW who were making truck loads of money flying airplanes, just like today. If you want to chase the all mighty dollar, you might find yourself feeling as disapointed selling real estate as you do flying. I really cant say I feel sorry for you. You reached a point in aviation that many will never see. Joy in life is much more than just having all the toys. Wise man once told me, watch what you wish for, it just might come true.

Kpt40

I have been a stealth reader of this post for some time now. Your post moved me to register so I could give you my views-not that I think I am really bright or insightful, but your post struck a chord.

I agree that the job isn't what it used to be.However, that doesn't mean its a bad job. As others have said above, 150k isn't bad.---

From what I know of real estate, you will have to sell 8.5 million dollars worth of houses per year to make that amount(7% commission split between buyer and seller agencies, half of which go to the agent, half to the broker).
Average house price of 150k-just a wag... means 57 home sales a year-over 1/week. My dad was in real estate...Its a doable amount, but you will definitly put in some long long hours. Remember when you bought your house...
As you said, houseing bubble, etc etc, beyond the fact that the bubble will hurt all over when/if it pops,-keep in mind that as a salesperson, you are a fisherman. You never know if this week you will get a fish or not.

I believe that the problem isn't one of low pay, its one of high expectations.If you wanted 250k a year, and you only make 150k a year, obviously you feel cheated.In the USA right now, very few people make 150k.
But, if you have any love of flying left in you,it will be the most painful decision of your life. I did it once, and cried myself to sleep on many nights. An LOA isn't a bad idea, if you can get it. If you really like the new job, feel free to leave aviation - but barring that, the grass is not greener.And renting a 172 does not fill up the empty feeling.

Its your choice, but think very hard about it....unless you are at an airline I am applying to, in which case, feel free

mike734

First off, thanks for the thoughtful responses to my post. I was moved to hear some of you wish me well and express sympathy for my situation. There are many ways I'd like to rebut some of your posts so let me try to address some of your points.


It is true that most people don't make 150k/yr. The people I know, as capable as me, do make that much. They don't EARN it however. The folks I'm comparing myself to are small business owners. They are not WAGE EARNERS. That is a key difference. Also, $150k/yr is not a lot of money when you live in an area where the average price house is $400,000 and you have 3 kids under 6 and your need to retire in 15 years. I would have loved 150 when I was in my 30's. However, the 40's and 50's are different. You just wait.


As far as real estate goes. The average house in this area is around 400k. I don't think I'll get rich immediately. I'll start slowly by listening and surrounding myself with the most successful people in the industry. It will take 5 years to really kick in but my income will be growing when I hit 60 in stead of dropping to zero. I have 2 friends in RE today that have already made 300k this year. One is a career RE agent/owner, the other is a furloughed USAirways pilot with only 3 years in RE. (He does some of his own investing however.) If they can do it, I can too.

I know I will look up at a jet someday and wish I could be there and not showing the 40th house to someone, but I've been there and done that. I achieve the goal of being a captain for a major airline. I've had fun but it is time to get down to business. "Watch This" said it, It is just a job. (It used to be a phenomenal job). Today, it is just an OK job. Those of you who think this is the greatest job in the world need to get out more.

I could go on but I am boring even myself

SkyHigh

Three years ago I was a 757 Pilot and lost my job. Since then I have been working in real estate as a successful home builder. From my perspective I can tell you that the easy money that real estate agents and appraisers are making will dry up in a year or two. Real estate is a cycle like everything else and this one is about to cool off. Back when I lost my job I was bored to tears and desperate for a change I saw friends and family who were making a killing in other fields and wished to be with them. These days I earn more money and am home every night, and last week I enjoyed my first stress attack. My blood pressure raised to over 158/92 and stayed there for a few days. The doctor told me that it was a normal stress reaction and that most of the population lives in that elevated state for decades, after questioning my friends and family I found it to be true. We all work late, long and carry a giant stress ball in our chest. I wish I could go back to boring flying where your only stress is what hotel room you were going to get at the end of the line. Pilots have a messed up idea of what a normal pay scale is. Regional pilots think that 35K/year is a lot of money because they have been earning half that for most of their careers. Major airline pilots think that 140K/year is not a lot of money since they work with people who earn that or much more. Over time your perceptions become distorted. Most people work their tails off and earn a little more than 50K/year, a few hit 85K/year a small few earn over 100K/year. Last week I met with a United Airlines pilot who wanted to quit flying and start building houses like me, the month before that I was approached by an Alaska Airlines pilot who wanted to quit flying and get into real estate investing. The truth is that it is very difficult to reproduce the incomes that airline pilots have. I live within a hours drive to Seattle and the median income for a family of four in my county is 34k/year. I would look into it very carefully before I pull the plug. The odds are strongly against you making the kind of easy money that you are making now. Besides if you have had 25 years of increasing pay and great benefits and are not financially independent by now then you probably will never be. I wish I could find a way back in. Flying is a boring and repetitive job but it is much better than working for a living.