Saw a DCA Missed Approach Tonight...
11-27-2011, 05:41 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 275
I got to fly the Rossalyn LDA to the River Visual at DCA last week, and gotta say that it has to be the stupidest approach ever! All this just to avoid the prohibited areas. I come from a previous military flying gig and flew some of the zaniest approaches ever. It's one thing to do it in a cargo plane, but with passengers, not a good idea, regardless if it adds some "excitement" to the day. Give me the 10 mile ILS anyday! Besides, DCA should have closed years ago!
11-27-2011, 05:43 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 432
Lol so true. Actually in NYC the last couple times they never even asked us if we had the airport or the "tanks" they just said "cleared visual"
11-27-2011, 06:10 AM
#13
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
A number of things could have happened. The crew may have felt they were too low to perform the maneuvering required to line up. They may also not have been stabilized. It's likely the gear, flaps, & slats were out but the engines may have still been at flight idle. Engines at flight idle while 500-1000 ft above the ground typically does not qualify for a stabilized approach, & for the purposes of safety generally requires a missed approach/go around.
I could speculate all day, but if the go around was the crew's decision, and not an instruction by ATC, then I commend them. Safety and adherence to the rules put in place to promote it is key to running a safe flight.
I could speculate all day, but if the go around was the crew's decision, and not an instruction by ATC, then I commend them. Safety and adherence to the rules put in place to promote it is key to running a safe flight.
11-27-2011, 06:14 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,898
I took my son out to Gravelly Point to watch planes land on rwy 19 at DCA tonight around 1930. I've been doing this for years, but tonight we actually saw a missed approach. Looked like a UAL 737. I know missed approaches happen all the time, but I'm curious to hear from pilots what they think happened. Here's what I saw:
- aircraft was on the River Visual 19, made the final right turn after the 14th St Bridge, as soon as the aircraft completed the turn I could tell he turned too far right and not aligned with rwy 19, looked like he was lined up with taxiway Kilo. Then it appeared as though he immediately went missed approach once he cleared the inlet and climbed out, didn't even make an attempt to correct since he was so far right of the centerline (my speculation).
Winds at the time were 6 kts out of 190. We followed him back around the pattern and he made it just fine on the second attempt.
Just curious on what pilots experienced with the River Visual think happened here.
Thanks -- in any event it was interesting to see.
- aircraft was on the River Visual 19, made the final right turn after the 14th St Bridge, as soon as the aircraft completed the turn I could tell he turned too far right and not aligned with rwy 19, looked like he was lined up with taxiway Kilo. Then it appeared as though he immediately went missed approach once he cleared the inlet and climbed out, didn't even make an attempt to correct since he was so far right of the centerline (my speculation).
Winds at the time were 6 kts out of 190. We followed him back around the pattern and he made it just fine on the second attempt.
Just curious on what pilots experienced with the River Visual think happened here.
Thanks -- in any event it was interesting to see.
This would just be my guess based on what you described. At 500 feet we do not have the option of trying to fix the approach if we are outside of course, path, speed or configuration limits.
11-27-2011, 06:25 AM
#15
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Me: "Hey, the rain is getting heavy out here..."
ATC: "Okay, square up your base."
Me: "Okay."
11-27-2011, 06:26 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Reverse Cowgirl
Posts: 546
The final part of that approach does not have any instrument guidance to back up your visual cues. So being too high or low can happen easier than a normal approach with instrument landing vertical guidance. It's a fun approach and I always like it. I lived in that area and love Gravely point. One of the best airplane watching spots anywhere.
11-27-2011, 09:16 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
LGA and DCA are a love/hate relationship for most guys. What attracts you, like a moth to a flame, is that you have to be "on your game" at both airports to the point where you start to feel like a PILOT again instead of just a monitor of the automation.
LGA, and to a certain extent, DCA were places where brakes and reverse were used without regard to wear and tear or passenger comfort. Very early in my career, I made one of those floater landings on 04 at LGA and made the usual reverse thrust application down to about 80 knots and then light braking. There was a light mist at the time, not even actual rain, and, as I stowed the reverse, we got into the reverted rubber of the 22 touchdown zone and started to slide. Got my attention and scared me so bad that I never let that happen again! From then on at LGA, it was moderate brakes and reverse and the advantage was, on 04, one could usually turn off on Papa and not have to wait to taxi across 13, plus the controller could get another departure off 13 when he could see you start the turnoff.( All subject to weight, wind , and braking coefficient, of course)
Had a Fed in the jumpseat for a route check into LGA one day, and after the parking check was complete, he commented that I had really got on the brakes early. I just smiled and said "This is La Guardia. The rules are differnt here."
LGA, and to a certain extent, DCA were places where brakes and reverse were used without regard to wear and tear or passenger comfort. Very early in my career, I made one of those floater landings on 04 at LGA and made the usual reverse thrust application down to about 80 knots and then light braking. There was a light mist at the time, not even actual rain, and, as I stowed the reverse, we got into the reverted rubber of the 22 touchdown zone and started to slide. Got my attention and scared me so bad that I never let that happen again! From then on at LGA, it was moderate brakes and reverse and the advantage was, on 04, one could usually turn off on Papa and not have to wait to taxi across 13, plus the controller could get another departure off 13 when he could see you start the turnoff.( All subject to weight, wind , and braking coefficient, of course)
Had a Fed in the jumpseat for a route check into LGA one day, and after the parking check was complete, he commented that I had really got on the brakes early. I just smiled and said "This is La Guardia. The rules are differnt here."
11-27-2011, 09:46 AM
#19
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,665
LGA and DCA are a love/hate relationship for most guys. What attracts you, like a moth to a flame, is that you have to be "on your game" at both airports to the point where you start to feel like a PILOT again instead of just a monitor of the automation.
LGA, and to a certain extent, DCA were places where brakes and reverse were used without regard to wear and tear or passenger comfort. Very early in my career, I made one of those floater landings on 04 at LGA and made the usual reverse thrust application down to about 80 knots and then light braking. There was a light mist at the time, not even actual rain, and, as I stowed the reverse, we got into the reverted rubber of the 22 touchdown zone and started to slide. Got my attention and scared me so bad that I never let that happen again! From then on at LGA, it was moderate brakes and reverse and the advantage was, on 04, one could usually turn off on Papa and not have to wait to taxi across 13, plus the controller could get another departure off 13 when he could see you start the turnoff.( All subject to weight, wind , and braking coefficient, of course)
Had a Fed in the jumpseat for a route check into LGA one day, and after the parking check was complete, he commented that I had really got on the brakes early. I just smiled and said "This is La Guardia. The rules are differnt here."
LGA, and to a certain extent, DCA were places where brakes and reverse were used without regard to wear and tear or passenger comfort. Very early in my career, I made one of those floater landings on 04 at LGA and made the usual reverse thrust application down to about 80 knots and then light braking. There was a light mist at the time, not even actual rain, and, as I stowed the reverse, we got into the reverted rubber of the 22 touchdown zone and started to slide. Got my attention and scared me so bad that I never let that happen again! From then on at LGA, it was moderate brakes and reverse and the advantage was, on 04, one could usually turn off on Papa and not have to wait to taxi across 13, plus the controller could get another departure off 13 when he could see you start the turnoff.( All subject to weight, wind , and braking coefficient, of course)
Had a Fed in the jumpseat for a route check into LGA one day, and after the parking check was complete, he commented that I had really got on the brakes early. I just smiled and said "This is La Guardia. The rules are differnt here."
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