Delta posts $765M profit in 3Q
10-26-2011, 04:47 PM
#61
Don't want to participate
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: 737 Left Seat
Posts: 1,016
The funny part about it is that you can actually still call SWA and talk to the person who is in charge of submitting Form 41 data, even without identifying yourself.
Last edited by LuvJockey; 10-26-2011 at 04:58 PM.
10-26-2011, 04:57 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 737n/FO
Posts: 667
LJ,
Can't imagine why you'd be defensive with some of attacks you've been exposed to.
We get involved in your threads/forums and appreciate your being involved in ours because information about your contract, scope, pay, benefits, etc. is critical to us (DALPA) getting ready to negotiate the first non-BK legacy contract in over 10 years. For us, this is a critical contract to our financial future and we can't always rely on the union to give us all the information we need to make an informed decision.
Thanks for taking the time to contribute.
Can't imagine why you'd be defensive with some of attacks you've been exposed to.
We get involved in your threads/forums and appreciate your being involved in ours because information about your contract, scope, pay, benefits, etc. is critical to us (DALPA) getting ready to negotiate the first non-BK legacy contract in over 10 years. For us, this is a critical contract to our financial future and we can't always rely on the union to give us all the information we need to make an informed decision.
Thanks for taking the time to contribute.
10-26-2011, 05:09 PM
#63
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
No, that was the alpa welcome packet to the air tran pilots.
How anyone can defend alpa (even though not stated), and mention what is going on with airtran/ swa, is truly beyond belief.
Why on earth is it so difficult for DALPA to internalize and educate Delta pilots that SWA pilots make an absolute a$$wad load more money than delta pilots with better workrules and scope...forget narrowbody, widebody and international.
I know why, but I still cant figure it out.
There is no valid excuse for the defense of the expectation management.
I loathe the blind shilling. If the job of restoration is too difficult for DALPA they should admit it.
10-26-2011, 05:31 PM
#64
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
A couple of years ago, the usual suspects on the DALPA forum were pretty much out in the open with their assertion that the kind of numbers necessary for restoration are "not realistic" for us to achieve. Now, they are a little more subtle about it. But it is in effect a tacit admission that they believe restoration is unachievable. They just have more severe political consequences now if they come out and say it in so many words.
10-26-2011, 10:03 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
A couple of years ago, the usual suspects on the DALPA forum were pretty much out in the open with their assertion that the kind of numbers necessary for restoration are "not realistic" for us to achieve. Now, they are a little more subtle about it. But it is in effect a tacit admission that they believe restoration is unachievable. They just have more severe political consequences now if they come out and say it in so many words.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
10-27-2011, 04:16 AM
#67
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Restoration, however deserved, is not the right stratedgy/rhetoric IMO. We should stick to SWA plus reasonable premiums in all areas, SWA pay rates plus reasonable premius for small narrowbody planes and up from there and SWA scope and work rules...plus a reasonable premium.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
We will never see the survey results. We will never see the opener. We will never even see a summary of the opener. We will never see a transcript of our forced negotiations with the unions of our direct regional competitors over OUR scope language.
When we see our incredibly weak Tentative Agreement, we will have to vote NO or be happy with being far below every SWA pilot for many years to come. Wish we weren't in this position...but we are.
Carl
10-27-2011, 04:22 AM
#68
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Preach on sister, but I somehow doubt that management could give a rat's patootie what you say or think on this board. You might as well save your energy because come 01-01-13, I'm afraid you're going to rise and shine only to find things as they currently are since that's where management wants them and intends to keep them.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Carl
10-27-2011, 05:12 AM
#69
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Restoration, however deserved, is not the right stratedgy/rhetoric IMO. We should stick to SWA plus reasonable premiums in all areas, SWA pay rates plus reasonable premius for small narrowbody planes and up from there and SWA scope and work rules...plus a reasonable premium.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
Its much harder for a Stockholm'd pilot or a manager alike to make the case as to why we can't afford that without accusing or admitting (as the case may be) that its a management talent issue. And that stratedgy plays straight to the NMB's heart. Battle cries for "restoration" because "we deserve it" and back in the glory days you could get a Caddilac for a month's pay and all that not only serve no strategic purpose, it ends up being equal to or less than SWA plus reasonable premiums anyway...especially when you include scope. All flying on 01-01-13 belongs to us and we will end up getting a massive portion of our oursourced flying back and each and every seat the company wishes to have at DCI, AK or in a JV will have to be "paid for" by the company because the baseline is SWA plus reasonable premiums and it is indefensible to say we can't have what a ruthless industry dominant competitor has.
It's six of one, half dozen of the other. SWA + "reasonable premiums" is a big chunk of the way toward restoration. Nothing wrong with restoration being our objective, but "SWA+" is the 800 lb. gorilla in terms of effective strategy. Too bad it's not being utilized.
12-27-2011, 08:43 PM
#70
Don't want to participate
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: 737 Left Seat
Posts: 1,016
Good news, it looks like the total number of SWA pilots has finally been corrected on the TransStats site. It was in error by almost 1000 pilots. Actual total for 2010 was 5564, vs the previous reported 6423. The Airline Data Project data that is supposedly from MIT is now officially garbage.
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