georgetg

Hey Carl,

I can't stand Bill Swellbar either.

But the underlying data is legit, the way he puts it together isn't.
For instance the average salary chart, all it does is takes "money spent on pilots" and divides it up by "number of pilots"

Each airline in the chart may have different ways on accounting for spending.
What goes in one companies "pilot expenses column" might go to a totally different department at another company like "training"

Pilots out on medical, long term disability, family leave, mil leave, union business will all affect those numbers if they are counted as "pilots" but get compensated from a different pool of cash...

All that matters (to the financial types) is this number:

Pilot CASM
2010 Delta Pilot CASM ¢1.07
2010 WN Pilot CASM ¢1.42

The Charts about "competitive advantage/disadvantage" "average pilot salary" etc. are pure management fodder, and help Bill come in as a consultant to get better "labor deals".
You won't see any of those numbers quoted in an Annual or quarterly report because they simply have no bearing on the operation.

Even with augmented crews and guys on disability, to Delta Air Lines, pilots are 32% cheaper than Southwest pilots and our paychecks reflect that difference.

Now here's something for a little perspective 2010 numbers:

CASM was ¢12.55
CASM ex Fuel was ¢8.18
Pilot Portion of CASM ¢1.07

that's the proverbial "drop in the bucket"

Cheers
George

LuvJockey

How much you wanna bet? That number is not legit.

alfaromeo

I thought the SWA welcome packet to Airtran pilots was a red hot poker and instructions on how to drop your pants and bend over.

Elvis90

That came after the AirTran MEC voted No on the 1st SLI. Warm fuzzies gone.

DAL 88 Driver

That's irrelevant. We're not debating the purpose of the SWA welcome packet. We're discussing the data contained in the packet. I know it's hard for you, alfa, but try to focus. Either the numbers presented are accurate, or they are not. From everything I've seen so far (here and elsewhere), those numbers continue to get confirmed time and time again.

sailingfun

The numbers are probably fine. Keep in mind that 166,000 was the average for all pilots. There are lots of SW pilots who fly almost full time in the reserves as a example. Same thing at Delta. There are Delta 767 Captains who will not make 150,000 k this year by choice. There are lots of Delta 767 CA's who will break 250K this year. There are guys who had second business at both airlines. Many consider the airlines there second job. Lots of Delta guys over 60 now flying 20 hours a month. Same at SW I suspect. The number to look at is the difference. Delta was at 142,000 last year on average an SW at 166,000 using company reports. Delta gets 5 percent more in the DC fund not reflected in those numbers and there is a 4 percent raise in 3 months.
The data in those reports is what will be used when you are before the NMB. Not the data from a welcome packet. The numbers come straight from the companies operational reports. Here is a W2 for the last pay period for a 767 Delta CA. Pretax he is at 269,000 with 2 months yet to go. He has not worked that hard but he works smart! Is he the norm, not at all but the norm rarely gets posted.
Payments: - Gross Earnings Pretax Ins and 401K Taxes Deductions Net Pay Direct Deposit Current $15857.69 $321.49 $4416.51 $671.28 $0.00 $10391.75 Year To Date $269936.52 $28486.31 $72234.80 $15263.46 $0.00 $152875.41

sailingfun

Sorry the pay data did not format well but you can read it. I wish I could post a 747 CA's numbers I talked with on the lounge a few days ago. He made the 767 CA look like a piker!

LuvJockey

I know that you're trying to ignore me, but $166,000 was not the average for all SWA pilots. You can repeat it all you want, that doesn't mean that it's right. The data that you're using is obviously flawed.

Take a good look at this page:
http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...20Analysis.htm

Take a good look at the P-10 data listed, it's obviously wrong, you can't possibly think that it's correct.

TransStats will pick up a revision next week...

After the revision, the correct average wages should be able to be calculated, and it will be higher than $186,000. Matter of fact, my estimation is at around $193,000 per year average for all SWA pilots including those with their own business, those in the reserves, blah blah blah.

I'll get to total compensation later.

Columbia

Thanks Luv. Sailing isn't interested in questioning the accuracy of pro-management data. As it stands now, both pilot groups are compensated almost identically.

MoonShot

For every 1 guy like these, there are 25 + FO's, sitting reserve (not by choice), on the hook for 18 days of work per month, for 70 hours pay - month, after month, after month...