Delta posts $765M profit in 3Q
01-01-2012, 09:25 AM
#111
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Many, many years ago, I talked to my LEC rep about this issue. He was a fairly junior, reserve, F/O at the time, I was a mid line holder. He would typically bid a 'blind' move up and get a couple really nasty 4 day trips, which would result in an 85 hr. line, vs. 70 for straight reserve.
THEN...he would drop BOTH the 4 day trips by touching them with 5 days of "ALPA" work....from home. I only know this because I started checking his schedule, after my wife asked me, "Why are you always gone, and he's always at home...and you are wayyy senior to him?"
So one day when I ran into him I asked, "What's up with you and all the trip drops, and 85 hour lines?? How do you claim to represent me, if YOU never have to do MY job and at the same time, you are getting 85hrs. pay, while I'm working my ass off for only 75??"
He said, and I think this attitude is still too prevelant today with some reps, 20 years later:
"It's Win Win! Maybe you, or another pilot, can pick up one of those trips on a greenslip..."
Talk about losing touch with reality! This guy should have been making 70 a month sitting short call, instead he's making 85 and never flying.
If it were up to me, LEC reps would only get what ever the ALV is every month, and no $1,000 override for a lawn crew, every month.
AND there would be term limits for EVERYONE, Committee chairs especially. 1 term, go back and fly the line and suffer like every one you are supposed to "Represent" and they would all have to fly half a month, every month, and if they were junior, have to sit reserve as well....but that's just me.
Here's their answer, "If it's such a good deal, why didn't YOU run for office?"
And they have a point. It's not a job I would want, even with all the extra money and time at home. So I really can't ***** about them and their evil ways, but that's never stopped me!
I have had some very good friends who were LEC reps, and I know they spend a lot of time on the phone, late at night sometimes, and have to deal with a lot of "Personal Issues" our pilots bring to them.
Listening to their horror stories has pretty much confirmed that I don't want their job, and they can't be representing you in the CPO if they are out flying a 6 day trip. What irks me is that some guys get into an office and then Never Leave.
I think we should turn over all the office guys (Com. Chair especially) at least every 2 years. Until someone steps up to run against and replace them, it's not going to happen. The Committee Chairs are appointed, not elected, and they never leave. That needs to stop.
But since I don't want to do that line of work, I guess I am part of the problem. Once the kids are out of the house, I think I will run for office, that's 2 years off so my wife can still talk me out of it...
THEN...he would drop BOTH the 4 day trips by touching them with 5 days of "ALPA" work....from home. I only know this because I started checking his schedule, after my wife asked me, "Why are you always gone, and he's always at home...and you are wayyy senior to him?"
So one day when I ran into him I asked, "What's up with you and all the trip drops, and 85 hour lines?? How do you claim to represent me, if YOU never have to do MY job and at the same time, you are getting 85hrs. pay, while I'm working my ass off for only 75??"
He said, and I think this attitude is still too prevelant today with some reps, 20 years later:
"It's Win Win! Maybe you, or another pilot, can pick up one of those trips on a greenslip..."
Talk about losing touch with reality! This guy should have been making 70 a month sitting short call, instead he's making 85 and never flying.
If it were up to me, LEC reps would only get what ever the ALV is every month, and no $1,000 override for a lawn crew, every month.
AND there would be term limits for EVERYONE, Committee chairs especially. 1 term, go back and fly the line and suffer like every one you are supposed to "Represent" and they would all have to fly half a month, every month, and if they were junior, have to sit reserve as well....but that's just me.
Here's their answer, "If it's such a good deal, why didn't YOU run for office?"
And they have a point. It's not a job I would want, even with all the extra money and time at home. So I really can't ***** about them and their evil ways, but that's never stopped me!
I have had some very good friends who were LEC reps, and I know they spend a lot of time on the phone, late at night sometimes, and have to deal with a lot of "Personal Issues" our pilots bring to them. Listening to their horror stories has pretty much confirmed that I don't want their job, and they can't be representing you in the CPO if they are out flying a 6 day trip. What irks me is that some guys get into an office and then Never Leave.
I think we should turn over all the office guys (Com. Chair especially) at least every 2 years. Until someone steps up to run against and replace them, it's not going to happen. The Committee Chairs are appointed, not elected, and they never leave. That needs to stop.
But since I don't want to do that line of work, I guess I am part of the problem. Once the kids are out of the house, I think I will run for office, that's 2 years off so my wife can still talk me out of it...
In some respects I agree that term limits might be a good thing. Then again, we will run out of pilots that can/will run for office pretty quickly I would think. I still believe that there are a lot of good guys at the LEC/MEC that are doing pretty good work. I think that a lot of this stuff gets blown way way out of proportion by the unhappy few. By and large, I would venture a guess that most pilots are satisfied with the representation they are getting. That is just my opinion. Maybe you are right about the committee chairs and their never ending appointment though. Have you tried submitting a resolution to change that? Maybe YOU can get the ball rolling in that manner. I have no clue as to what it would take to get that sort of thing changed. I do know that nothing will happen on an "anonymous" forum other than to garner the support of those that obviously already support that cause. I dunno.. just spitballing here.. Back to Portlandia.. Happy New Year
01-01-2012, 09:41 AM
#112
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
Thank you for your support! Now, would you like funding for a Bridge to nowhere in your district?? ;^)
I think there is a percentage of people who are going to whine, no matter what or who is elected, or what gets changed. In my years of volunteering on various committees (No B Scale, Strike, Sched, PBS, etc.) what I have found is, the Delta pilot group, as a group, is pretty lazy and uninvolved. When I once asked a MEC Chairman why that was, he said, "What did you think that rocking chair was for?" And I think he's right. Most Pilots are lazy. I don't know how a few of us slipped through the cracks! That's why I don't think the DPA will have any more success than DALPA. The Silent Majority that always votes Yes is just too lazy to show up and scream NO!
You stuck in PDX? Anything open today? I do miss that place, one of my favorites.
I think there is a percentage of people who are going to whine, no matter what or who is elected, or what gets changed. In my years of volunteering on various committees (No B Scale, Strike, Sched, PBS, etc.) what I have found is, the Delta pilot group, as a group, is pretty lazy and uninvolved. When I once asked a MEC Chairman why that was, he said, "What did you think that rocking chair was for?" And I think he's right. Most Pilots are lazy. I don't know how a few of us slipped through the cracks! That's why I don't think the DPA will have any more success than DALPA. The Silent Majority that always votes Yes is just too lazy to show up and scream NO!
You stuck in PDX? Anything open today? I do miss that place, one of my favorites.
01-01-2012, 09:42 AM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Timbo, I deleted my response - it's just not worth it.
I just made my New Year's resolution, which is to sign off this board. It has grown tiresome and redundant. This used to be a place where the "Latest and Greatest" was heard; but now it seems to be nothing more than an anti-ALPA ranting club with the same dozen or so guys constantly whining.
Enjoy and Sayonara, but I've got better things to do with my life.
I just made my New Year's resolution, which is to sign off this board. It has grown tiresome and redundant. This used to be a place where the "Latest and Greatest" was heard; but now it seems to be nothing more than an anti-ALPA ranting club with the same dozen or so guys constantly whining.
Enjoy and Sayonara, but I've got better things to do with my life.
Last edited by Pineapple Guy; 01-01-2012 at 10:00 AM.
01-01-2012, 09:50 AM
#114
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
How long has the Communications Chair been talking down to us? Seems like 10 years, but it may only be 5...he would be the first one I would replace, and I would have done it two years ago.
On the Term Limit thing? You simply make it a Requirement of being a Delta Pilot, just like paying dues is required under Agency Shop. Hold a Lottery, pull 4 names for each slot, and have an election. If you win, you must serve, but in 2 years you are Free again, having done your part. I think that would motivate the silent majority to wake up and pay attention to what they are actaully voting on!
On the Term Limit thing? You simply make it a Requirement of being a Delta Pilot, just like paying dues is required under Agency Shop. Hold a Lottery, pull 4 names for each slot, and have an election. If you win, you must serve, but in 2 years you are Free again, having done your part. I think that would motivate the silent majority to wake up and pay attention to what they are actaully voting on!
Last edited by Timbo; 01-01-2012 at 11:01 AM. Reason: random thoughts...
01-01-2012, 10:37 AM
#115
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
Timbo, I deleted my response - it's just not worth it.
I just made my New Year's resolution, which is to sign off this board. It has grown tiresome and redundant. This used to be a place where the "Latest and Greatest" was heard; but now it seems to be nothing more than an anti-ALPA ranting club with the same dozen or so guys constantly whining.
Enjoy and Sayonara, but I've got better things to do with my life.
I just made my New Year's resolution, which is to sign off this board. It has grown tiresome and redundant. This used to be a place where the "Latest and Greatest" was heard; but now it seems to be nothing more than an anti-ALPA ranting club with the same dozen or so guys constantly whining.
Enjoy and Sayonara, but I've got better things to do with my life.
You'll be back...no one can escape the pull!
Just When I Thought I Was Out, They Pull Me Back In! SCENE - The Godfather: Part 3 MOVIE (1990) - HD - YouTube
01-01-2012, 10:55 AM
#116
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Click on the link below, then in the box "Union Name by Abbreviation" select Airline Pilots Association from the dropdown menu. Then on the bottom from the box "Report Type" select LM-2, then hit submit. When the report list populates, select the last one 000-179 2010 Report.
Organization Query Page (Disclosure)
Carl
Organization Query Page (Disclosure)
Carl
01-01-2012, 11:01 AM
#117
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
.........................
01-01-2012, 11:09 AM
#118
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Hey Carl,
Thanks and Happy New Year. I read Slow's response to my post and contemplated it.... for a minute. I was late to a New Years party and decided to put it in a hold for later.
You captured everything I had planned to say.
One point I do want to reiterate.
YES the Committee guys are getting C2K pay.
Slow, you responded that they are not getting C2K rates. Rates, of course not. But if you take 92, or even 87 hours of pay.... on the highest equipment they can hold plus stipends/per diem, etc., then their W2's look no different than they probably did in 2001.
Mind you, while they are representing the interests and needs of the pilots, this windfall is paid for by Delta, not ALPA.
So, while line guys are dealing with an average line value of 72 hours a month from Nov-March with little to no open time to pick up, and while still under a bk contract, those under full FPL see no change from C2K.
Tell us again how they are down here in the trenches with us fighting and are not swayed at all by the company's funded influence?
So easy to change. How about the line pilots pay you all to represent us?
Thanks and Happy New Year. I read Slow's response to my post and contemplated it.... for a minute. I was late to a New Years party and decided to put it in a hold for later.
You captured everything I had planned to say.
One point I do want to reiterate.
YES the Committee guys are getting C2K pay.
Slow, you responded that they are not getting C2K rates. Rates, of course not. But if you take 92, or even 87 hours of pay.... on the highest equipment they can hold plus stipends/per diem, etc., then their W2's look no different than they probably did in 2001.
Mind you, while they are representing the interests and needs of the pilots, this windfall is paid for by Delta, not ALPA.
So, while line guys are dealing with an average line value of 72 hours a month from Nov-March with little to no open time to pick up, and while still under a bk contract, those under full FPL see no change from C2K.
Tell us again how they are down here in the trenches with us fighting and are not swayed at all by the company's funded influence?
So easy to change. How about the line pilots pay you all to represent us?
Carl
01-01-2012, 11:16 AM
#119
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
No matter how many times you repeat it, your statement still is not factual. I did not parse words. But now you're equivocating. Before you asserted that W2's looked no different than C2K. Now you're stating "probably...in 2001." I'm sure if pay went back to the May 2001 scale you'd excoriate ALPA while beating your DPA tamborine.
You know slowplay, I expect more from my unelected MEC bureaucrats. When Delta management pays you your 92 hours flight pay loss per month plus 1,000 stipend plus expenses, I'm starting to think maybe they're not getting their money's worth. I know the line pilots sure aren't.
Carl
01-01-2012, 11:31 AM
#120
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Timbo, I deleted my response - it's just not worth it.
I just made my New Year's resolution, which is to sign off this board. It has grown tiresome and redundant. This used to be a place where the "Latest and Greatest" was heard; but now it seems to be nothing more than an anti-ALPA ranting club with the same dozen or so guys constantly whining.
Enjoy and Sayonara, but I've got better things to do with my life.
I just made my New Year's resolution, which is to sign off this board. It has grown tiresome and redundant. This used to be a place where the "Latest and Greatest" was heard; but now it seems to be nothing more than an anti-ALPA ranting club with the same dozen or so guys constantly whining.
Enjoy and Sayonara, but I've got better things to do with my life.
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