Carl Spackler

You too bro. Happy New Year.

Carl

TheManager

Hey Carl,

Thanks and Happy New Year. I read Slow's response to my post and contemplated it.... for a minute. I was late to a New Years party and decided to put it in a hold for later.

You captured everything I had planned to say.

One point I do want to reiterate.

YES the Committee guys are getting C2K pay.

Slow, you responded that they are not getting C2K rates. Rates, of course not. But if you take 92, or even 87 hours of pay.... on the highest equipment they can hold plus stipends/per diem, etc., then their W2's look no different than they probably did in 2001.

Mind you, while they are representing the interests and needs of the pilots, this windfall is paid for by Delta, not ALPA.

So, while line guys are dealing with an average line value of 72 hours a month from Nov-March with little to no open time to pick up, and while still under a bk contract, those under full FPL see no change from C2K.

Tell us again how they are down here in the trenches with us fighting and are not swayed at all by the company's funded influence?

So easy to change. How about the line pilots pay you all to represent us?

slowplay

No matter how many times you repeat it, your statement still is not factual. I did not parse words. But now you're equivocating. Before you asserted that W2's looked no different than C2K. Now you're stating "probably...in 2001." I'm sure if pay went back to the May 2001 scale you'd excoriate ALPA while beating your DPA tamborine.

Committee guys get paid in the category they are assigned. They are not paid what they can hold. Only "designated pilots" are paid what they can hold (MEC Officers, Pilot Director, and Negotiating Committee). That stuff is in the contract, you might try reading it. Oh, the list of 24J pilots is in there too.

slowplay

Who did that? Name the guy

Who did that? Name the guy


Maybe you ought to actually read the source material, assistant groundskeeper. Then you wouldn't have to guess. The LM-2 breaks out all compensation and expense reimbursement (per diem, expenses, vacation reimbursement, etc.) for every individual. The document is way more intrusive than Federal requirements for publicly traded corporations, as they only are required to list the top 5 earners. Oh, all the stuff the union funds, such as the Charitable Fund and Furlough/Emergency Relief fund is in their too.


Not on a public forum. But their schedules were all available for pilot review. The big DPA poster had 15 days of greenslips made legal by 12 days of sick drops over the 3 summer months.

All disclosed in the LM-2, Bushwood bomber. You'll see the DPA NC and Safety committees have representatives on that list with debts to the Delta pilots by their names.


There is only one guy on DPA's NC that has run for major public office (3 times). Asking for money from a union PAC that you've never contributed to is hypocritical, don't you think?

I guess you don't like democracy, Spackler. Remember, it's not the Detroit Pilots Association. The other councils representing the other 9,000 plus pilots get a vote too. And not one single committee guy got to vote on how that resolution was processed. All of it was done by the elected representatives.


Name that guy.

Name one elected representative that hasn't been included in the process, or been excluded from a meeting, or has been isolated from infomation provided to the MEC. When you're finished with your "proof", contact the Department of Labor. They'll be interested.

Your assertion is bovine excrement.


You keep repeating that which is false. Why? Is this what ninjas do? But I again compliment you on your selection of screen name, you're trying to be as effective as Carl Spackler was at Bushwood.

Why did I take you off my ignore list?

finis72

Happy New Year everyone. Did we really have a guy call in sick to make himself legal for greenslips ? and is he really associated with the DPA ? Can you spell unethical.

iceman49

Where do you find the LM-2 report? thanks

Carl Spackler

Happy New Year to you too.

I don't pretend to be an expert on our PWA, but I didn't think calling in sick made you any more or less eligible for greenslip flying.

If the person even exists, he's either associated with DPA or DALPA. But slowplay won't release the name of the guy or even PM you the name. Sounds like yet another slowplay authored smear campaign.

Can you spell: Let's find out if it's even true first?

Carl

Wasatch Phantom

I completely agree that it's not ethical... if that's what that person did. But how do you know he/she wasn't legitimately sick, and then after feeling better, decided to throw in a greenslip?

I'm not an ALPA fan, but I find it disingenuous of Slowplay to cast aspersions on someone associated with DPA after ALPA's abysmal performance related with the whole FPL issue and ensuing cover-up.

ALPA won't make their profligate spending public but have no problem making accusations about others.

LeineLodge

I don't jump into this ring very often, but let's not judge what someone may or may not have done with their sick time - without the facts, which we will never have.

I agree that scenario you guys are describing sounds a little fishy, but:


1. It may have never happened

2. If it did play out like that, none of us can say without a doubt, that said pilot was not sick when he called in sick. I'm not naive, but I will alway give the benefit of the doubt to my fellow pilots, who are largely an ethical group. There may be an average "sick profile" but it takes outliers on both sides to create that average. I'll choose to believe that guys are sick when they say they're sick. Enough said.

3. Let's let the CPO's worry about who's abusing sick time, and not turn on ourselves. Don't call in when you're not sick, and more importantly, DON'T fly when you are. It's very simple. Nothing to hide if you play by the rules.


Not trying to start the whole sick abuse argument again, but when I see an alleged ALPA committee chair (I don't know Slow only going on what Carl mentioned above) condemning a pilot's sick use, it concerns me. I'd expect that my union "brothers and sister's" and especially the union reps/committee chairs/volunteers would side with me if my sick usage were ever called into question. Especially before all the facts were known.

Again, we don't have any of the information on the invidual mentioned above that went on a GS bonanza. Let's stop this witch hunt (of a likely legitimate pilot) before it gets going.

Carl Spackler

This is such a great example for pilots to see of their MEC committee bureaucrats in action. Slowplay here is trying to sell us on the idea that he did not parse words. But here is what The Manager actually posted:

Notice how he clearly said union officials are still getting C2K pay or better?

Now here is our MEC committee bureaucrat refuting The Manager's statement:

Notice how he states no ALPA Committee folks are getting C2K rates? If you read it quickly, you might not notice that you've just been lied to. You may not notice that he just changed the subject and refuted a statement that was never asserted.

This is just one example of why trying to communicate with people terrified of losing their cushy deal is so difficult. They will stoop to any and all levels to try to hide the truth from you. But try as they might, you can defeat this behavior by reading every single word very carefully. If you do this understanding that their main goal is to hide the truth from you, this stuff will stick out like a sore thumb to you.

Carl