Justdoinmyjob

The one main problem is that it is impossible to do this because each company is independently owned. How do you construct an SL with pilots who are employed by different companies? Maybe if the regional was a wholly owned or are owned by the same holding company, otherwise, it's not workable.

Suppose you combine two independent companies pilots into a single list, but each company retains all the other functions, pay, training, hiring, discipline, furlough. How do you resolve those issues. Force one company to outright buy the other? That opens a whole Pandora's box of problems, starting with, what leverage do we have to force a company to do what we want?

eaglefly

Well, that pill is unlikely to be administered at AMR in any other form except a straight staple, as the Eagle pilots have already effectively agreed to a staple as per the latest "hiring" agreement inked by ALPA.

I'd expect anything different at UAL or Delta to go over like a fart in an elevator.

upndsky

Horizon was purchased by Alaska in 1986. They started flying the F-28s in the 80's, but I'm not sure exactly when. The last F-28 left the fleet in 2003.
So it is different than United and Delta in that respect.

Flyby1206

AMR is the only realistic candidate for something like this since Eagle is wholly owned and does 95%+ of the regional feed currently. But in order for this to work it would have to be something mainline labor groups (not just pilots) would agree to, and at the same time be financially beneficial to management. Two huge hurdles in my opinion.

eaglefly

My point was Horizon was an independant carrier flying large turbojet aircraft on its own routes. At some point AFTER that, they were purchased by another carrier. Prior to the Alaska purchase the only difference between UAL, Delta and Horizon was size.

eaglefly

The primary hurdle is from management. They don't care where Eagle's pilots go seniority-wise, but DO care about labor coasts ACROSS THE BOARD to operate smaller RJ type aircraft competing with other regionals or LCC's. They've steadfastly resisted any idea of merging pilot seniority lists because of fear of loss of labor cost-containment.

The APA has already floated the idea of "one-list" (all flying performed by APA represented pilots), but it's been rejected by management thus far. As I stated earlier, theoretically virtually the entire Eagle pilot group has future seniority at AA, so you'd think this wouldn't be a major issue, but management wants more then just competitive small-jet flying, they want to use it as leverage for capitulation in virtually ALL areas of mainline pilot labor costs.

Iowa Farm Boy

As with any negotiation, you generally have to give something to get something. While I agree AMR or any mgt. would be loath to give such a SLI, I also think that none of the Legacy unions are willing to give anything for it, even a straight staple. Obviously the Regional unions have nothing to give as not since the Comair strike have they negotiated from a position of power.

Now- back to the thread topic...

gloopy

Not practical or even possible. Right now mainline pilot groups allow outsourcing. Going through numerous, and in many cases overlapping, seniority lists would have to be merged across every airline.

The time to even think about that kind of solution was back in 2000 by mutual agreement with the 2 DL regional wholly owned groups and DL but that ship has sailed. Only one is still owned and its being reduced to almost nothing. The other is part of an extremely complex 3 airline monstrosity subcontracting for at least 2 legacy airlines. The next closest is AA but that window is closing fast and a fragile but similar and incomplete stop gap measure has been implimented that suggests that is as far as that's going to go over there.

Taking the hit by absorbing a DCI seniority windfall, even with fences and freezes, would be far worse than just starting up another one from scratch or finding one that would agree to a prenup. A staple, with some protections, is the absolute ceiling and unless that is agreed upon in advance it is a non starter.

In order to do what you are proposing, you would have to merge every regional into every mainline that they fly for, and some fly for many. In addition to that, you still wouldn't "own" the scope. Not even close. Management would still be free to hire non merged or brand new regionals unless the mainline groups bargained to prevent that. Do you really expect a pilot group to bargain for a windfall for another group all at their expense, and then bargain some more to plug up all the holes to protect those who just recieved the windfall?

No connection pilot is ever going to be one number senior to a mainline pilot on the mainline list. As for F9/RAH, RAH had 100% holding company scope, F9, a tiny botique narrowbody operator, did not. All legacies have holding company scope and very, very, very few regionals do. For this to happen, the mainline groups would have to force the issue and pay for it. All to risk a relative seniority windfall for connection carriers? No way.

aa73

Back on topic: scuttlebutt on our union message board points to rumors that TPG (Texas Pacific Group) might put in a hostile takeover bid for AMR. Discuss amongst yourselves.... I think some ex CAL dude named Bonderman runs it.

Flyby1206

Wow, that would be freakin nuts! What other airline investments does TPG currently hold? I know they had some stuff with Midwest and NWA in the past, right?