AFPW

Snort, the last thing I need right now is reasonableness! I need a crystal ball with an insurance policy. Oh wait, we are talking about aviation.

I do appreciate the perspective from the inside though. I don't get to hear much any more from the world of 121. Is his current gig tolerable? Kind of? I am really sick of it, he is too. Jumping back may be trading one devil for another though.

Glad y'all are fighting for LOS. Thanks.

The Chow

Apologies 29.

You're correct that Delta has hired post merger.
I was ever so ineptly trying to say that the way Delta is approaching their business model is setting the bar for the other carriers. Management loves how Delta has outsourced most of what made it distinguished. As such the APA is having to fight tooth and nail to keep scope and not allow 226 jets over 50 seats to become part of their new contract.

johnso29

Or worse, UAL's unlimited 70 seaters. It's a battle for all of us. My apologies if my post came off as harsh, although I do understand you angst with Delta.

The Chow

Actually I'd love to be able to put my application in one day. But if the 100 seat goes the route of DCI I don't think there will be any mass hiring for a long time.

That is of course except for the hat.

tsquare

I really don't think there will be any 100 seaters in DCI.

aafurloughee

no friggin LOS. If that goes down, once again senior pilots at AA have sold the junior brother out. I understand if they had some kind of formula say 2 for 1 or something, but on furlough 10 years, and jump back to first year pay. As I said if that happens, They are just looking out for themselves, their retirement, and their pay scale so they can stoke up the crap in their "ME" rooms. lemme guess, back to B scale as well???

labbats

If you were furloughed on 3rd year pay and no LOS was agreed to, you'd still go back to 3rd year pay correct?

X Rated

Correct....

Sink r8

I once got a little history on Scope, and it appears that the two companies that really got the ball rolling on scope were (drumroll please) AMR and DAL. While everyone else held the line, I think you got the ball rolling with Wings West Saab's, and we allowed Avro's.

In the Outsourcing Hall of Shame, both of our companies have coveted spots, but of course, there are plenty of other worthy of (dis)honorable mentions. Of course, the previous DAL (and United, and UsAir, and CAL) that embraced outsourcing with gusto aren't really around anymore...

So much for the idea that any one airline is somehow pure or different when it comes to Scope. Some have been fortunate that their management didn't need it (SWA), and some have coughed it up despite not being anywhere near BK (Alaska).

The more pertinent question is how we get the genie back in the bottle. The answer rests in the conomics of the 50-seat RJ: we can't let the 76+seat genie out of the bottle.

Or is is the 91+seat genie?

Sliceback

"It's always been done"? Regarding LOS? Who made up that?



Early 80's furloughees came back at 85% and no LOS.

Mid 90's came back with a temporary 2:1 LOS. Every two days on the property earned one day LOS. Once they reached 5th yr pay the LOS stopped.

I think the first furloughs were fall 1993 and everyone was recalled by summer 1996.

Last guys furloughed probably had about 2.5 yrs longevity so they qualified for 15 months LOS bump. LOS pay pump stopped when they achieved 5th yr pay.

First guys furloughed had about 5 months longevity so they got 2-3 months LOS bump for 3.5 yrs(when they got 5th yr pay), at which point the temporary LOS bump went away.

Lengths of service, time on furlough, etc, is a best guess estimate.