Another Big Retirement Day at AA 10/1
09-28-2011, 04:20 AM
#11
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 19
So say you're a busybody pilot's wife. And said pilot is a furloughee still awaiting recall, but it is getting really close. The pilot is flying pt 135 for decent pay but horrific schedule and barely any benefits. Let me tell you how luxurious a really "crappy" reserve line sounds.
Would you go back? Right away? Defer?
Any word on whether if you were still in your first year, you go back to first year pay? I understand that any jump in pay to account for time on furlough would not occur until after the next contract and I see from a previous post that rumor is that is off the table. But first year pay? Oy. I am not having or losing hope on that one until there is a TA on the table and that is a few years away, no?
Also after they get all these retirees out the door and people trained, and get all these low time on the property guys back, shouldn't there personnel expenses go way way way down? Unless they do account for time on furlough for pay. But even then, it wouldn't be retroactive right? It would just be starting from the new contract the guys would get their bump. Still low personnel costs because it would seem they would need people off the street.
Would you go back? Right away? Defer?
Any word on whether if you were still in your first year, you go back to first year pay? I understand that any jump in pay to account for time on furlough would not occur until after the next contract and I see from a previous post that rumor is that is off the table. But first year pay? Oy. I am not having or losing hope on that one until there is a TA on the table and that is a few years away, no?
Also after they get all these retirees out the door and people trained, and get all these low time on the property guys back, shouldn't there personnel expenses go way way way down? Unless they do account for time on furlough for pay. But even then, it wouldn't be retroactive right? It would just be starting from the new contract the guys would get their bump. Still low personnel costs because it would seem they would need people off the street.
09-28-2011, 06:04 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 1st year pay for the 3rd time
Posts: 1,434
So say you're a busybody pilot's wife. And said pilot is a furloughee still awaiting recall, but it is getting really close. The pilot is flying pt 135 for decent pay but horrific schedule and barely any benefits. Let me tell you how luxurious a really "crappy" reserve line sounds.
Would you go back? Right away? Defer?
Any word on whether if you were still in your first year, you go back to first year pay? I understand that any jump in pay to account for time on furlough would not occur until after the next contract and I see from a previous post that rumor is that is off the table. But first year pay? Oy. I am not having or losing hope on that one until there is a TA on the table and that is a few years away, no?
Also after they get all these retirees out the door and people trained, and get all these low time on the property guys back, shouldn't there personnel expenses go way way way down? Unless they do account for time on furlough for pay. But even then, it wouldn't be retroactive right? It would just be starting from the new contract the guys would get their bump. Still low personnel costs because it would seem they would need people off the street.
Would you go back? Right away? Defer?
Any word on whether if you were still in your first year, you go back to first year pay? I understand that any jump in pay to account for time on furlough would not occur until after the next contract and I see from a previous post that rumor is that is off the table. But first year pay? Oy. I am not having or losing hope on that one until there is a TA on the table and that is a few years away, no?
Also after they get all these retirees out the door and people trained, and get all these low time on the property guys back, shouldn't there personnel expenses go way way way down? Unless they do account for time on furlough for pay. But even then, it wouldn't be retroactive right? It would just be starting from the new contract the guys would get their bump. Still low personnel costs because it would seem they would need people off the street.
That's assuming that when your husband comes back AA started hiring like gangbusters off the street and your husband comes in on top of the new hires.
my $.02
09-28-2011, 06:44 AM
#15
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
Bingo! Great analysis. When AA declares Ch 11, it will be an unknown variable---and noone here will be able to predict what will happen. All I know is you don't want to be at the bottom of a 10,000-pilot list when it does happen.
09-28-2011, 07:32 AM
#16
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
I'm a regional puke so please take that into account but if your husband's pt135 gig is tolerable, I might defer to give myself more time. There are a lot of scenarios playing out about the future of AA right now. One could be on property for a short amount of time just to be returned to the street via shrink to profitability a.k.a. Delta. Also the other airlines should start hiring soon as well.
That's assuming that when your husband comes back AA started hiring like gangbusters off the street and your husband comes in on top of the new hires.
my $.02
That's assuming that when your husband comes back AA started hiring like gangbusters off the street and your husband comes in on top of the new hires.
my $.02
09-28-2011, 07:44 AM
#17
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
AA cannot successfully shrink to profitability. The have to maintain a comparable product to the other two legacies or cease being a legacy themselves. I doubt they'll hand over critical market share (that they'll never fully recoup) when they can easily continue on for 18 months during the process. Much quicker 1113's during that 18 months would let them rebuild during the process, actually turning a profit while they do it.
Furloughing their least expensive pilots (before or after any 1113's), especially when they'll need them after the process to ramp up and at least maintain training bubbles for new types (Airbus family and 787) will IMHO, likely mean that no pilots would be furloughed. At that point ALL AA pilots will become competitively cheap pilots, especially those at the bottom.
Is a BK furlough POSSIBLE ?
Of course, but far from certain. It MAY be more a likelyhood of temporary stagnation though as AA resorts itself out. Probably another 100-120 will actually come during furlough recall and that could take until spring when the highest likelyhood of BK would peak and that might mean a gap before any street hiring or flowthrough's who arrive during that period.
Speaking of flowthrough's, IF AA goes BK, I'd expect the recent Eagle->AA hiring agreement to disappear like a fart in the wind during a reorganization.
09-28-2011, 07:50 AM
#18
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
AA knows it needs to GROW to compete with UAL and DAL in the future, but a juicy merger parter is no longer there (though U east....uugh ! and Jet Blue may factor in, in the future). Shrinking to some kind of "niche" carrier being neither legacy, nor LCC isn't a recipe for long-term viability and would almost certainly result in AA being squashed by the behemoth lagacies from behind and then finished of cross-wise by the LCC's as their flattened wreckage smolders in the intersection.
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