tsquare

In some ways yes.. in some ways no. I would like to see how many jobs PBS has cost us, and what we have really gotten in return for that concession...

Sennaha

I too came from non PBS. Most of the pilots I talk to that went to PBS, don't care for it. Vacation being one reason among others.

tsquare

IMHO, it will take a miracle to get items like trips touching back in our contracts. That is one of the things that made LOT bidding great. Turn 1 week into 3. But the reality is that we have allowed our contracts to make us very... very.. productive. Unfortunately, this is the new norm. To go back to those days will be extremely hard, if not altogether impossible. PBS does have it's good points, so I won't be a basher, but what is frustrating to me is that the association and company will not give us true value of just how much the system cost us in terms of jobs. IMHO again, I think that if we were to be able to see pilot costs after C2K (with 10,000 pilots) compared to now with 12,000 pilots, the difference would be eye watering. I would wager that we do not cost 20% of what we did then.. just a wag.. no scientific costing.. just one man's opinion. The thing is though, that DALPA will never run those numbers, because if they did, there would be a riot on their hands, and THAT they do not want...

Old UCAL CA

I completely agree.

Just for the "blog" record, I'm a senior legacy guy and my schedule has never been better than under PBS for the last five years.

While the trip "touches" and vacation issues can be a problem, they are related to contract provisions and have minimal to do with PBS. It does what it does based upon what rules are programmed.

If one doesn't like what one sees as a PBS result, it is usually based upon seniority or a lack thereof, user ineptitude, ignorance, contractual/staffing provisions or a combination of all four.

As a senior guy I have much greater schedule flexibility than I had under "pre-constructed" lines, nor do I have to try and "out-click" somebody 20 years junior for available "open time" when the window opens. I have always received an acceptable to excellent line of time under the primary bid award anyway and have had no need to trade in the OT window since the advent of PBS.

I average about 17-18 days off per month (14 to 21 range) with max pay by high duty period productivity, two to three duty periods per trip, 11 to 16 hour downline overnights, no red-eye, and large narrow-body (737-800/900) flying only. Duty periods consist of one or two legs, mostly domestic transcon with ANC, Central America and Carribean thrown in as filler. One or two months a year require a max of three legs per day for productivity. Even so, three legs are rarely flown. For me, it's a good work life.

And no, I do not under any circumstances, VJM. I fly the primary monthly schedule without "additions." It is already max pay with a large amount of time off.

I also do my rest and recharging at home...not on the road. The road is for work only, minimal rest, then back home with lots of time off.

So, if you hear of a relatively senior guy complaining about PBS, it is usually based upon a contractual issue in the programming that the individual is failing to recognize, or.... a learning disability.

Sniper

It very much depends on who you ask.

The problem is, not everyone is very senior, 'Clear Right'. When negotiating a contract for ALL the pilots, PBS is usually not in the group's best interests. It is in management's best interests (higher productivity = less pilots = less cost), and it is in a senior pilots' best interests.

The union mentality though is one grounded in a degree of shared sacrifice. While senior guys are treated best, a bit of the cream is skimmed of the top and shared with the rest of the crew force - everyone gets a taste. It's not socialism, where everyone gets the same amount of cream, though, by any means - ask any junior pilot.

Just know that for every great schedule under PBS, there is likely a horrible schedule to balance it out. In the end, most pilots share some of the same preferences (productivity, high pay, more days off), and there is only so much cream to go around.

putzin

Pref bid is great when in your in the top 1/3. If you don't understand how it works, God help you, because the company won't (not even at our beloved VX).

DAL73n

While I don't like some of the things we lost we can't totally blame PBS by itself for those things. I much prefer (even as a bottom line holder) my choice of what's left than ending up with a mixed bag that you had under LOT bidding. I have also used it as a top 20% line holder and then it's certainly great (3x4 day trips to fill up for the month - 70 hours or so - I don't need more).

Clear Right

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2...0PERSONNEL.htm

Johnso29, compare the 2010 rates of JetBlue and Delta and tell me again about B6 pay. Top 5 in the industry, in only 12 years, on Average only about $1300/year behind Big "D" with no wide bodies, and my guess is due to their productivity they make it happen in fewer work days per month.

B757200ER

Congrats, B6 guys. You dodged a bullet!

Sennaha

Until the grenade hits with an aquisition or merger, or JB makes it until most of the pilots retire and have to work at home depot.