Clear Right

JB pilots are not temporary employees and the airline is part of a craft or class that is protected under the RLA. Here is a better quote for you that explains the law. Assuming JB pilot are hired during the Merger or Acquisition (i.e. successorship) and I realize that is a big assumption, here is a better explanation:

"This legislation is significant for airline employee groups because, unlike the National Labor Relations Act, the RLA does not have statutory successorship requirements. (Under the NLRA, a successor may be required by law to recognize the predecessor’s union, bargain with the union and even assume the predecessor union contract, depending on the nature of the transaction.) Under the RLA, however, an employee group can only impose successorship obligations by contract. Absent a contractual obligation on a successor (or a situation where a smaller carrier buys a much larger unionized carrier), the predecessor’s employees cannot impose any obligations on the successor. (Remembering the caveat above regarding a nonunion successor.)

Many employee groups already have such seniority integration procedures established as successorship obligations in their collective bargaining agreements. However, the legislation is significant for three types of employees:

Nonunion employees

The CAB mandated integration procedures for employees affected by transactions regardless of whether they were unionized. Similarly, the recent legislation would apply to any employee covered by the RLA, not just unionized employees. So, if a nonunion carrier either acquires or is acquired by a unionized carrier, all employee groups would receive these integration procedures.

Again, though, nonunion employees would not have any successorship protections (they don’t have to be hired by the successor) nor would they have any right to negotiate over their other terms of employment. The seniority integration procedures would only apply if they were hired and then would not protect any other term of employment."

As to your second question yes, because of the many concerns over merger protection, independent council was consulted and essentially verified what you are reading above.

shiznit

According to 12 year CA rates as posted on APC.

cgtpilot

Again we're paid two separate numbers the base plus premium. I.e. if the 12 yr CA rate is $150 his payrate above 78 hrs credit is $225. Run some numbers at 85-90 hrs of credit and that difference is significant. Again you must then subtract our higher contributions to medical and 401k plans.

Regardless we need some form of representation. At this point I would accept Mickey Mouse Pilots Association in order to codify our contracts into a CBA. There are many things about our contracts that I like but I need them in a CBA yesterday. Obviously the corporation can afford them and then some.

IQuitEagle

Now that's rather myopic. But yeah, after 12 years, a CA at Airtran will finally make more per hr than a CA at jetBlue, despite making less every year up to that point (not even including premium pay). And yes, after 14 years at Spirit a CA will finally make more than a 12 yr CA at jetBlue. And FO's will make less no matter what at either airline in comparison.

Wow. I guess we really need to push for Airtran and Spirit rates...

shiznit

Base pay is base pay. How is that myopic?

I did not have the energy to compare every rate along the way, but in general, you will spend more time at the top captain narrowbody rate than anywhere else on a pay chart.

I'm not saying that what JB has is all bad, some of it is decent, but to say that the contracts that ALPA has negotiated over the years is somehow 'undercutting' the industry is disingenuous.

I just hope by the time you guys get merged you have figured out a way to get NMB recognized collective representation of some kind. I have many friends over there and I know haw hard they work to put food on the table for their families.

I'd hate to see lawyers go to arbitration on unrepresented pilots and convince an arbitratior's panel that PEA's on 5 year renewal periods are not permanent employees and hence not covered under McCaskill-Bond.

How much do you really and truly think that the JB management will spend on your SLI defense right as they are getting their golden parachutes and jumping out?

It might work, it might not, but do you really want to roll the dice like that? (I think(and hope) JB pilots will be covered, but I'm not an RLA attorney, and attorneys get paid to try and win cases, not to do the perceived "right thing")

Just be very careful out there. It's never quite as much fun to buy and use a prophylactic, but it sure does give you a better chance of not regretting your actions later!!!

Liv2soar

I had to laugh when I read the comparison to AirTran and Spirit payrates. Shaw-Right! Hourly rates alone are wildly different than end of year total take home pay.

If you want to truely compare, then don't forget to include the 78 hour trigger, 13 dollar night override, 3.71 or 5.11 dollar international override, duty rig, trip rig, night rig, 100% pay for deadheads, 100% pay for cancellations. Then subtract the cost of which employee benefits you signed up for. Finally, do not subtract 2% for union dues and then your looking at what your true pay is.


Hourly pay means nothing. Take home pay means everything.

Sennaha

You are correct. However JB pay system is geared to the hour hore and top 10 percent in seat. There is a huge disparity in W2's at JB. I know FO's making way more than captains. I know senior CA's making way way more than middle road captains.
Ask a typical 85 hr per month pilot if his or her W2's went higher with the last FSM. Also ask if his or her days off went higher or lower as well. Why do you think captain awards are going so junior?

gloopy

And no pay means much without scope when mangement decides to outsource. Merger language, even if otherwise effective, means nothing without scope as well since it only requires some holding company shenanigans to circumvent.

Clear Right

What's your point, that's called "seniority" and "preferential bidding" as well as "premium pay" that all encourage a "productive pilot.". What is the alternative, or were you just pointing out what is obvious to most? Not bashing you, just looking for clarity.

Ask the classic line bidders from the legacies if they prefer PBS, I think you will find they much prefer PBS.

RedeyeAV8r

Don't ask a FedEx pilot. We won't even discuss it Bcuz it's a 4 letter word.

If you have a decent contract and vacation, PBS would void most of it.