Outlaw2097

Need to somehow get FSS involved. You know, for 'a different view' sake...

theHub

What priority would a controller get? They would only get the Jumpseat if it was open, right? Pilots first?

Lambourne

I disagree with your idea greatly. To have a controller only fly in and out of their own airspace may be somewhat beneficial, however they only get to see how their facility handles traffic. For example, if you take a controller from IAD that is already the worst of the worst. It probably doesn't help him to operate in the airspace he is already clogging up with poor performance. Now take that same controller to ORD and let them see how to actually move airplanes both in the air and on the ground. Perhaps it would shame them into better performance on their own behalf. I can imagine the IAD controller passing out when observing the launching of two departures in a space that IAD would launch ZERO. Actually seeing ALL the runways in use being used versus IAD's desire to only use two of 4 and not allow airplanes to cross 1C if landing on 19R or 1L. The Dulles controllers should be fired and replaced with a CTAF. It could only get better.

Let these guys fly the system. See how the other facilities operate. It could only help them overall.

Stratosphere

I think it is pretty obvious that ATC priority is going to be behind everyone else. Like I have heard it will be more restricted than before anyway. I really wish pilots could work a few days as an ATC or a line mechanic and vice versa might change a few attitudes on all sides.

bleedairpacks

I'm glad I retired before this starts again.

Perm11FO

My brother was a scab controller at NY TRACON, later NY Center (hired by my father's friend after Reagan fired the controllers) and used the ATC jumpseat privilege solely as a means to go on vacation. He couldn't give a royal crap about what happened in the cockpit and was more than happy to accept any offer to "sit in the back."

Oh yeah, he nearly always had purchased tickets for the family on the same flight.

Before the flames start, I'll tell you that he is an arrogant, egotistical fool and had low opinions of anyone other than himself.

To believe Babbitt's sales pitch that this increases safety or awareness is to believe one more piece of political stuff that you find on the ground near dog parks. To think that a controller doesn't understand what happens in the cockpit presumes that the controller doesn't have a clue as to what his job requires of the cockpit crews. It infers that most controllers think that they can get a big jet to slow 50 kias in 10 miles or less; that any plane can intercept a LOC without overshooting on a 45 degree intercept when cleared 3/4 mile from centerline.

Wake up, folks, this is a bennie for the controllers. Babbitt is throwing them a bone after slapping them silly in the press for sleeping on the job. A bennie that costs nothing for the government. Imagine that....

Perm11FO

Stratosphere's post of: "I really wish pilots could work a few days as an ATC or a line mechanic and vice versa might change a few attitudes on all sides" caused me to LOL. Ha ha ha.

The logic of having a professional pilot act as a mechanic or controller is the same as presuming that the mechanic or ATC controller will "learn" anything sitting on a jumpseat. Learning occurs when the person is involved in the situation, rarely when they are a 3rd party, uninvolved with the circumstances or consequences.

TonyWilliams

That's why it's called "familiarization" and not training.

I agree with the above post about how some (many, most?) controllers pre-9/11 would sit in the back, go on vacation with their family, and could care less about the actual cockpit procedures.

And then talk smack about the crew when they get back to the ATC facility.

Remember what controllers needed to sign up for the job. 3 years work experience OR a college degree, speak english, high school diploma.

I think with the right restrictions that it would work.

1. The controller MUST sit in the cockpit, or not be allowed to fly.
2. Controller must use a headset to monitor radio comm.
3. Flight must originate and end at controller's home "base".
4. Redline "garden spots" like Hawaii, Saint Thomas, etc, unless that is their home base
5. Write a report of what transpired (that was the previous policy)

Sniper

I didn't say to ONLY fly in their own system, just that they must traverse it. Go IAD to ORD to ATL to CLT to IAD (or IAD JFK BOS ORD IAD), see how other groups do it - sounds like a good idea. But, if you're an IAD controller, you gotta' fly through IAD to see how your crew is doing.

As for ORD being the 'nirvana', I beg to differ to a degree. While the ORD 1 (or whatever # it is up to now) is impressive, ORD tower needs to see what needs to happen in the flightdeck when you swap departure runways multiple times on a taxi out, how hard it is for a non-ORD based crew to follow their taxi instructions after landing 9L/27R ("taxi C, U, E, Z, hold short T, follow the United, then T8, A, H, A bridge to the gate" - then they get mad if you ask them to repeat it), or why their flow is not the primary concern when asking a 747 to land a runway other than 10/28 while the RJ gets 10/28 (or at least watch how much fuel 4 engines burn on a go-around b/c they tried to squeeze you in when your Vapp is 160 kias b/c you are indeed, 'heavy').

In short, I want ORD controllers to be compelled to traverse ORD and IAD controllers to traverse IAD, not go KLAX-PHNL, watching the FMS fly a fixed route from wheels up till you click off the A/P for a VFR to the reef.

Lambourne

On number 3. How can a guy takeoff and land at their home base? Any airline offering a LAX to LAX service. You must write ALPA contracts with language like that! Wouldn't almost every controller be departing and arriving from their own airspace?

You clowns seem to think the controllers will be commuting like pilots on the Jumpseat. I don't believe any were allowed previously or that many would start based on the policy change. For one the controllers earn enough money to actually live in the cities they work. Also controllers don't have schedules that allow them to commute.

I actually would like to see them on the SJU, STT, etc flights. Let them get a perspective of the issues involved in trying to deviate around weather in non-radar overwater instances. What it's like to not get your altitude you need on an overwater segment to hnl.

You guys are incredibly dense when it comes to the benefit this exchange can provide. Communication and observation can only improve the pilot/controller relationship.

L