Delta Ponders Pilot Sources
04-23-2011, 01:50 PM
#81
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
It is a nice thought but...
You are speculating that the 1500 hr could lead to 'multi crew licensing'. The whole purpose of 1500hr ruling is to have pilots with real life experiences in the airler cockpits. MPL ttally goes against that concept. Have you listened to the congressional hearings following the Colgan crash? It is easier to increase required qualifications than to decrease it. Politicians definitely won't like getting a deadly crash blamed on their policy. The 1500hr requirement definitely does not eliminate pilots with self gained experience. I and many thousands of pilots joined airliners with thousands of hours of 'self-gained-experience'.
AMA has curbed the doctor supply pretty good. My neighbour had to wait 2 months to see an Oncologist recently to rule out a potential cancer condition. By the time he finally got to see him, the situation moved to stage 4. I don't see the congress stepping in to increase doctor supply.
In the worst case, look at what we have right now. Puppy mills like like ATP, ERAU, American Flyers etc....250 hrs from zero to hero. If you look at the few countries where MPL is being proposed, you'll see that MPL is a more time consuming and expensive process compared to the current 250 hr deal. So MPL is not the going to break the pilot leverage.
If you think 1500hr is going to get airliners scrambling for MPL, what makes you think 500hr rule does not?
The 1500hr rule should be used to gain maximum leverage....we will fight MPL later if and when it comes to that. Last time we negotiated pay away for pensions, we not only lost 40% pay....they still furloughed and cut away pension. We should never again negotiate away a single thing we have for a future promise or threat.
AMA has curbed the doctor supply pretty good. My neighbour had to wait 2 months to see an Oncologist recently to rule out a potential cancer condition. By the time he finally got to see him, the situation moved to stage 4. I don't see the congress stepping in to increase doctor supply.
In the worst case, look at what we have right now. Puppy mills like like ATP, ERAU, American Flyers etc....250 hrs from zero to hero. If you look at the few countries where MPL is being proposed, you'll see that MPL is a more time consuming and expensive process compared to the current 250 hr deal. So MPL is not the going to break the pilot leverage.
If you think 1500hr is going to get airliners scrambling for MPL, what makes you think 500hr rule does not?
The 1500hr rule should be used to gain maximum leverage....we will fight MPL later if and when it comes to that. Last time we negotiated pay away for pensions, we not only lost 40% pay....they still furloughed and cut away pension. We should never again negotiate away a single thing we have for a future promise or threat.
I flew with plenty of guys from Europe who started at their career airline with zero time. The military does essentially the same thing. In less than a decade the average middle class college student will not be able to afford to pay for their own training. The airlines will step in with an exemption from congress to start their own cadet program like they have overseas.
I wish I could share your enthusiasm but I just can not see how our situation is going to reverse itself. Along with the regionals taking the domestic market and low cost carriers dividing up the rest there are even bigger threats on the horizon. In short if you are in your 30's you could have as long as 30 more years in the profession. That is a long time for it to get much worse.
Don't quit your side job. I might just save you one day.
Skyhigh
04-23-2011, 02:03 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
Trust me...I won't. It pays me pretty good....more than what I make at Delta. Too bad I have to have an exit strategy working for one of the premier carriers in N. America.
Good luck to both you and me. I hope things get better...it can't get any worse (at least for me...I will walk if I don't see a substantial improvement in 2012).
Good luck to both you and me. I hope things get better...it can't get any worse (at least for me...I will walk if I don't see a substantial improvement in 2012).
Last edited by freightguy; 04-23-2011 at 02:16 PM.
04-23-2011, 05:33 PM
#84
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Every Year
The legacy airlines need to hire thousands upon thousands just to make a dent in the population of the waiting.
Someone here said that SWA received 10,000 qualified applications from sitting part 121 captains with 1000 hours of turbine PIC and three internal recommendations. There are literary tens of thousands sidelined guys out there with jet time.
Skyhigh
04-23-2011, 07:28 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
This is why the airline industry is currently on borrowed time. They have the best and brightest now (essentially trapped), but that will soon change. The majority I have flown with didn't even consider aviation until college. They chose it because of a combination of lifestyle, QOL, pay etc..The job offered a lot. Not the case today and therefore those at the top of their class will not be coming into this field. I don't think management has a clue what is coming. They fail to realize the kind of person needed to run a safe and smooth operation. He/She is not a C student, who gets a B in aviation mgt. Absolutely amazing and sad at the same time that they think so little of our profession.
04-23-2011, 07:39 PM
#87
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
This is why the airline industry is currently on borrowed time. They have the best and brightest now (essentially trapped), but that will soon change. The majority I have flown with didn't even consider aviation until college. They chose it because of a combination of lifestyle, QOL, pay etc..The job offered a lot. Not the case today and therefore those at the top of their class will not be coming into this field. I don't think management has a clue what is coming. They fail to realize the kind of person needed to run a safe and smooth operation. He/She is not a C student, who gets a B in aviation mgt. Absolutely amazing and sad at the same time that they think so little of our profession.
04-23-2011, 07:41 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 691
Every Year the US cranks out an average of 8500 new commercial pilots. Each one could have as much as 40 year careers ahead of them. Over the last ten years there has been a huge building backlog of pilots waiting for jobs. Lately things have dropped off a bit but production can resume in a blink of an eye. Six months is all it takes to currently become legal to serve as a pilot in a part 121 airliner.
The legacy airlines need to hire thousands upon thousands just to make a dent in the population of the waiting.
Someone here said that SWA received 10,000 qualified applications from sitting part 121 captains with 1000 hours of turbine PIC and three internal recommendations. There are literary tens of thousands sidelined guys out there with jet time.
Skyhigh
The legacy airlines need to hire thousands upon thousands just to make a dent in the population of the waiting.
Someone here said that SWA received 10,000 qualified applications from sitting part 121 captains with 1000 hours of turbine PIC and three internal recommendations. There are literary tens of thousands sidelined guys out there with jet time.
Skyhigh
US Civil Airmen Statistics
As you have said before, there might be a shortage of people willing to work at the regionals but there will never be a shortage of people trying to get hired at a major.
04-23-2011, 08:52 PM
#89
Che Guevara
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
"One of the first goals would be to build an outreach programme focused on middle- and high schools in an effort to stir up enthusiasm for the pilot profession."
That's going to be pretty tough. "Stir up enthusiasm" for a 20K a year job where they treat you like $hit. Good luck.
That's going to be pretty tough. "Stir up enthusiasm" for a 20K a year job where they treat you like $hit. Good luck.
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