SkyHigh

I don't get it. I collected the following posts from others in this thread.

"Same with SWA. I would have gladly tried to get a 73 type but not for the few weeks of the window being open only to hire a 100 or so out of the 10000 resumes they received"

So after making it though four years of college, flight training and having the good fortune to get 1000 hours of part 121 PIC and three Captain recommendations at SWA your odds are still only a one percent chance of getting hired?

"There are McDonalds managers making $50000+ per year. With deductions, taxes etc, they net $4000 per month. If I own/run a pizza store in a decent street corner, I will make more money than what I make flying 'heavies' across the Atlantic for Delta."

Theses are basically the same kind of posts I make in a different part of this forum and get roasted for it yet I come over here to the big boys forum and some of my detractors are saying basically the same things as I.

I however would suggest working for the Post Office over McDonalds.

Skyhigh

JobHopper

I flew with a Captain about 6 years ago who owns 6 McDonalds (and still complained about his paycheck!). He said he paid his managers $50K. BTW, a "typical" McD's pulls in around $1M per month, according to him.

CVG767A

Yeah, now there's an outfit with a bright future...

I check my mail a couple of times per week, and use 10 or 20 stamps per year. The USPS is going the way of the Pony Express and the telegram.

TonyWilliams

The post office is one of the few things "guaranteed" by the US constitution.

SkyHigh

The guy who owns our McDonalds started out at 16 flipping burgers. He did not even finish high school and was promoted to the point where he was offered his own store as an owner. He is a very wealthy man today. (dead but wealthy)

I do not think the point here is to get line pilots to switch to fast food but moreover as an exercise in the opportunity cost of an aviation career. If a new pilot were to start out today in college by the time they graduate they could have as much as 300K invested in education and flight training for a profession that is a long way off from getting hired by a major airline that proposes to pay slightly more than a mailman.

Not worth it at all from a financial perspective. A mailman has nothing invested in their careers at the time of hire and yet they can reach DAL FO wages when their benefits are considered. An interview and a few years of good service at a fast food place can produce a similar income. Something is very wrong here.

Skyhigh

SkyHigh

I think that Delta and most other airlines are laying the ground work for a European style pilot academy if things get ugly with the pilot group. Airlines need to continue to cut wages and benefits. I do not think that they will let themselves get onto the loosing side of the negotiations if a real pilot shortage does materialize. They would rather start up their own pilot factories and pay them dirt.

Skyhigh

freightguy

Skyhigh...very true. As I said before, I make more money from a couple of small side ventures I run than what I make flying 767s across the pond for Delta. If 2012 contract does not show significant gains, I will leave for full time business or fly for an airliner abroad where I make more and cost of living is much lower.

Airlines will lose out on a lot of good pilots in years to come the way things are going. They will not be able to attract an elite pilot group. I have given my best to the airline industry during the last decade. I have zero checkride failures, never required re-training, never had to see a chief pilot for any kind of issues on my part, never had a mis-trip and have never even once called in sick during my entire airline career. (I've never shown up for work sick either). But I have not been rewarded enough for my efforts. If I put half that effort into my side business I would be a multi-millionaire now. I will soon join others who vote with their feet if the next contract does not show a significant improvement....I will definitely leave with a heavy heart...because I enjoy airline flying.

freightguy

Only if we let them Skyhigh...only if we let them.

That is why the 1500 hr rule is so important to the US airline pilot industry. With 1500 hrs, you can't waltz even into a regional airline turboprop with 250 hours. If 1500hr rule goes through, you need to pay your dues as a flight instructor, freight pilot or military before you see an airline cockpit. Pilots will not accept $20,000 per year wages at regionals for long if that happens. Regionals will lose the cost savings at the flight deck level soon. More flying will go to majors as a result. The overall supply will be curbed significantly....after all the requirement is going up 6 times the current levels. Then...supply and demand. Flight deck salaries will significantly climb.

However, even our own union is not supporting the 1500 hr rule. Most of the memebrship wants the 1500 written in stone...but leadership does not. So we will have to wait and see how this pans out. We could regain the past glory...we have the tools at our disposal. But we have to play our cards right. We are our own biggest enemy in this fight...it should not be like that.

SkyHigh

From my perspective the 1500 hour rule will only serve to eliminate pilots with self gained experience and create an excuse for the multi crew license to the airlines.

The cry to congress will be "there are not enough pilots" then congress will grant an exemption to airline run pilot academies that hire from zero and pay them dirt to fly for the mainline.

Skyhigh

freightguy

You are speculating that the 1500 hr could lead to 'multi crew licensing'. The whole purpose of 1500hr ruling is to have pilots with real life experiences in the airler cockpits. MPL ttally goes against that concept. Have you listened to the congressional hearings following the Colgan crash? It is easier to increase required qualifications than to decrease it. Politicians definitely won't like getting a deadly crash blamed on their policy. The 1500hr requirement definitely does not eliminate pilots with self gained experience. I and many thousands of pilots joined airliners with thousands of hours of 'self-gained-experience'.

AMA has curbed the doctor supply pretty good. My neighbour had to wait 2 months to see an Oncologist recently to rule out a potential cancer condition. By the time he finally got to see him, the situation moved to stage 4. I don't see the congress stepping in to increase doctor supply.

In the worst case, look at what we have right now. Puppy mills like like ATP, ERAU, American Flyers etc....250 hrs from zero to hero. If you look at the few countries where MPL is being proposed, you'll see that MPL is a more time consuming and expensive process compared to the current 250 hr deal. So MPL is not the going to break the pilot leverage.

If you think 1500hr is going to get airliners scrambling for MPL, what makes you think 500hr rule does not?

The 1500hr rule should be used to gain maximum leverage....we will fight MPL later if and when it comes to that. Last time we negotiated pay away for pensions, we not only lost 40% pay....they still furloughed and cut away pension. We should never again negotiate away a single thing we have for a future promise or threat.