DAL 88 Driver

You're getting lost in the details and missing his point. Most airline pilots are capable of being successful at any number of things. (And at a higher level than a McDonald's manager or pizza store owner, I might add.) We chose this profession because we have a love for flying and because it was a lucrative career. Now that this is no longer the case, many will find it difficult if not impossible to justify this profession as a career. No matter how much we enjoy flying, it just no longer makes financial sense... especially considering the cost of admission. Most young people starting out with "a lot on the ball" and high expectations for their family's futures are simply going to choose something else.

Elvis90

Well playing guitar and singing are my hobby, but maybe I can make a living from it...

1234

Actually, I am not getting lost in the details. I totally get the rest of your post. I have lived it, have the tshirts and the loans. If I could start over, knowing what I know now, it would be some serious decisions to make. I want restoration just as much as the next person. I was just calling out the disregard for actual facts in the statement on McDonalds managers and that if they make $50,000 a year, I guarantee they don't take home $4,000 a month.

LandGreen2

is SWA still advertising a 6 year upgrade after swallowing Air Tran??? make sure to tell them to put extra stamps on their FDX envelopes!!

Tony Nelson

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imapilot2
their fifth year fo's make more than our captains. they don't need movement

Shack..........


Ditto......you don't need movement when they pay you a livable wage. But the pay raises are nice when you do move up.

scambo1

My local Hardees manager made 84K last year. No degree 5.5 years at Hardees.

Columbia

Yeah, but does he get to wear a hat to work?

Sliceback

SW @ 6 yr upgrade? SW neighbor last year said it was at the 9 yr mark, and expected to be 12 yrs three years later(2013?).

freightguy

I said those managers pull in 50,000+. Many like Scambo's example pull in much more especially if they have years of experience in the industry. But dude....you're missing the POINT. We are paid similar to fast food managers....and I am not talking about a regional....we are talking about Delta mainline. That is unacceptable.

As to your second question, I very well know how much it costs to run a pizza store. I had to work at one during my flight instructing days to supplement my meager income. During a span of four years I worked as a delivery driver, cook and finally as a manager. I guarantee you will make more than a DAL heavy FO if you run it well.

If you really want to compare, lets compare us to similar professionals...like medical doctors. An average surgeon makes around $300,000 in the US. Yes...a doctor goes through years of schooling. Well...a major airline pilot does not waltz into his job in a few years either. It is either..college degree, commissioned officer, military flying, major OR college degree, flight instructor, 135 freight, regional, major airline. Both being a medical doctor and a major airline pilot requires years of work. Now, a doctor screws up, most often than not, he can cover it up. It usually does not even make the press. Do you know how many doctors show up drunk for work? It is not even press-worthy.

Now imagine we screw up and have a mainline airliner crash. The press world-wide will have it as their headline news for weeks and months to come. Every bit of our lives, education, training will be scrutanized and publicized. It is a huge responsibility. Infinitely more responsibility than a Hardees fast food manager.

Now, how do we 'get it back'?

Lets look at why doctors are paid much higher than us? Not because they are more valuable. It is because they have one of the most powerful lobbies in the US. Much more powerful than ALPA. The AMA controls the number of med. school seats in the US and they are very good at controlling supply through various means.

ALPA on the other hand is fighting with us to screw up our only chance to control supply. Following the Colgan crash, congress passed H.R. 5900 which requires 1500 hrs to an airline cockpit. ALPA is campaigning to bring that down to 500 hrs effectively increasing supply by 3 times. ALPA is the only pilots' union siding with the regional airline management in this issue. All other independent pilots' unions including Sully is siding with the 1500 hr rule.

We need drastic changes in union leadership to negotiate a successful 2012 contract. Currently, the leadership in ALPA has no vision. If ALPA can change from within...good. If not, it is time for DPA. Send in your dang DPA cards. To the very least lets light a fire under ALPA a$$.

Columbia

It's right at 10 years right now and that's with 1/2 of the current seniority list having been hired since then. With their growth quickly coming to a halt and the addition of the young airtran group, upgrades if hired now will be close to 20 years.