Delta Ponders Pilot Sources
04-24-2011, 06:27 AM
#101
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
There's already a shortage at the regionals.
AirportBusiness.com » Article » Pilot shortage a thunderhead airlines can't duck
About 12% of those with commercial licenses go on to get an ATP, which will fall short of requirements.
Pilot Outlook 2010-2029: A Shortage Looms - Plane & Pilot Magazine | PlaneAndPilotMag.com
It's so bad internationally that some Asian airlines aren't properly screening candidates for qualifications.
India checks pilots after finding fake licenses - Yahoo! News
It's not unique to our career; i.e., there's a nursing shortage as well.
AirportBusiness.com » Article » Pilot shortage a thunderhead airlines can't duck
About 12% of those with commercial licenses go on to get an ATP, which will fall short of requirements.
Pilot Outlook 2010-2029: A Shortage Looms - Plane & Pilot Magazine | PlaneAndPilotMag.com
It's so bad internationally that some Asian airlines aren't properly screening candidates for qualifications.
India checks pilots after finding fake licenses - Yahoo! News
It's not unique to our career; i.e., there's a nursing shortage as well.
04-24-2011, 06:27 AM
#102
You scratched my anchor
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,948
Agree as well SkyHigh. I'm lucky I got in when it was still cheap. I guess I'm only looking at it from my position. If someone dropped 300k in my lap it would end up being invested in something other than training. Hope we all see benefits in the next 10-20 years.
04-24-2011, 06:44 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Now by my loose calculations a legacy career is worth around $2.625 million over 30 years. Then however you must subtract for a self funded retirement, taxes and fortified benefits package. Don't forget to make an allowance for crash pad, the occasional hotel when commuting and food on the road.
But that is it.
Skyhigh
But that is it.
Skyhigh
I'm sorry that your aviation career didn't work out, but it is working out for many people. I've tried another career path, and my worst day in the cockpit was better than my best day in an office. Your results may vary...
04-24-2011, 06:44 AM
#104
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
I can not see how this is sustainable at all. The airlines must step up and start training their own pilots from scratch and then working them for decades at a much reduced price to recover their investment. An individual might make that kind of silly investment without figuring the numbers but a company will not.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh
04-24-2011, 06:57 AM
#105
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 62
04-24-2011, 07:09 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,482
Skyhigh -
Your average legacy value($2.625 mil/30 yrs) works out to be $87K per year. Obviously it's wrong. Avg salary(w/o benefits) data for 2009 -
DL - 138K
AA - 138K
UA - 125K
CO - 150K
US - 111K
SW - 176K
JB - 125K
AS - 163K
AT - 104K
Your $10 million/30 yrs seems high. That would equal $333,000 per year as an average. Even if you subtract benefits(20-40%) the quoted average pay is significantly above what Captain's pay used to be. Early 1990's w/b pay was around $140-150K for n/b's and $160-170 for 767 class a/c.
Your average legacy value($2.625 mil/30 yrs) works out to be $87K per year. Obviously it's wrong. Avg salary(w/o benefits) data for 2009 -
DL - 138K
AA - 138K
UA - 125K
CO - 150K
US - 111K
SW - 176K
JB - 125K
AS - 163K
AT - 104K
Your $10 million/30 yrs seems high. That would equal $333,000 per year as an average. Even if you subtract benefits(20-40%) the quoted average pay is significantly above what Captain's pay used to be. Early 1990's w/b pay was around $140-150K for n/b's and $160-170 for 767 class a/c.
04-24-2011, 07:11 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,482
Depending on which FAA spreadsheets you look at comm/ATP growth is as high as 3% in the last decade, or up to a 22% reduction.
Very interesting is the 2009 drop in Table 18 (additional certificates issued). 2009 comm/ATP dropped 16% in one year, and is 36% lower than 2000/2001.
Very interesting is the 2009 drop in Table 18 (additional certificates issued). 2009 comm/ATP dropped 16% in one year, and is 36% lower than 2000/2001.
04-24-2011, 07:34 AM
#108
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Average
Skyhigh -
Your average legacy value($2.625 mil/30 yrs) works out to be $87K per year. Obviously it's wrong. Avg salary(w/o benefits) data for 2009 -
DL - 138K
AA - 138K
UA - 125K
CO - 150K
US - 111K
SW - 176K
JB - 125K
AS - 163K
AT - 104K
Your $10 million/30 yrs seems high. That would equal $333,000 per year as an average. Even if you subtract benefits(20-40%) the quoted average pay is significantly above what Captain's pay used to be. Early 1990's w/b pay was around $140-150K for n/b's and $160-170 for 767 class a/c.
Your average legacy value($2.625 mil/30 yrs) works out to be $87K per year. Obviously it's wrong. Avg salary(w/o benefits) data for 2009 -
DL - 138K
AA - 138K
UA - 125K
CO - 150K
US - 111K
SW - 176K
JB - 125K
AS - 163K
AT - 104K
Your $10 million/30 yrs seems high. That would equal $333,000 per year as an average. Even if you subtract benefits(20-40%) the quoted average pay is significantly above what Captain's pay used to be. Early 1990's w/b pay was around $140-150K for n/b's and $160-170 for 767 class a/c.
50% of pilots are Captains and 50% are FO's. It is reasonable to assume that half a pilots career at a legacy will be in the right seat and the other half in the left seat. I used the average between the two to come up with an annual average wage then multiplied over 30 years. It is inaccurate to only look at top captain wages.
As pilots we are seduced by the promise of the 20 year captain salary. The reality is that those years comprise only a small portion of ones career. The rest is in much lower ranks of income. The entire career needs to be evaluated.
Ten years in college and as a flight instructor is off set by ten years captain salary at 140K. The average is often less than that of a mailman.
Skyhigh
Last edited by SkyHigh; 04-24-2011 at 07:51 AM.
04-24-2011, 07:38 AM
#109
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Glad
Many here are more than half way through their careers and have enjoyed times when when wages were better. My calculations are projected into the future. From the perspective of a new pilot who is starting college in the fall. What are their prospects?
I am glad that many here have enjoyed better careers than I however my interest is in the future not the past. How are new pilots supposed to afford the cost of college and flight training in light of a profession that is on a path to continue loosing ground?
Skyhigh
I am glad that many here have enjoyed better careers than I however my interest is in the future not the past. How are new pilots supposed to afford the cost of college and flight training in light of a profession that is on a path to continue loosing ground?
Skyhigh
04-24-2011, 07:42 AM
#110
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
True
Depending on which FAA spreadsheets you look at comm/ATP growth is as high as 3% in the last decade, or up to a 22% reduction.
Very interesting is the 2009 drop in Table 18 (additional certificates issued). 2009 comm/ATP dropped 16% in one year, and is 36% lower than 2000/2001.
Very interesting is the 2009 drop in Table 18 (additional certificates issued). 2009 comm/ATP dropped 16% in one year, and is 36% lower than 2000/2001.
When I was at a regional they intentionally hired 300 hour guys over experienced pilots and it made me wonder. Why would they do that? I think the reason is that they want to hire low timers to save money.
Legacy carriers are no different. They have been loosing billions over the last ten years. The way forward lies in cutting costs to survive. Whatever it takes to secure lower pilot wages will be pursued.
Skyhigh
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