DAL early retirement 2009/2011
04-22-2011, 02:15 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 581
When it's all said and done, what do we really have to show for this proactive engagement? An SWA Captain makes almost 100 grand more than a Delta MD-88 Captain. And Moak had the audacity to brag about how the Delta pilots "have reached a milestone" and are all the way back to pre-bankruptcy pay levels... conveniently leaving out the fact that we took a 32.5% paycut resulting in the pay he is apparently so proud of. And we STILL to this day don't even have any kind of initiative going to fix this!
Sorry, Mr. Oracle from Georgia... you may be ready to give up on your career (or maybe you're independently wealthy and don't need your career?), but I'm not about to give up on mine. It's obvious to me that ALPA is light years away from advocating anything even approaching restoration. Not gonna happen... and your thinking (which I believe is representative of the majority of this MEC) is a perfect example of why. DPA is not a perfect concept. And there are questions to answer yet. But, like I've said, I'll take a relative unknown that is at least trying over a known quantity that is obviously going nowhere.
Sorry, Mr. Oracle from Georgia... you may be ready to give up on your career (or maybe you're independently wealthy and don't need your career?), but I'm not about to give up on mine. It's obvious to me that ALPA is light years away from advocating anything even approaching restoration. Not gonna happen... and your thinking (which I believe is representative of the majority of this MEC) is a perfect example of why. DPA is not a perfect concept. And there are questions to answer yet. But, like I've said, I'll take a relative unknown that is at least trying over a known quantity that is obviously going nowhere.
Well said!
04-22-2011, 02:39 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
I gotta say, I am still on the fence about a different union. Can anyone give some info as to why this person might be a good leader of the DPA. And before anyone starts in with that garbage about "there isn't a leader right now, the pilots will elect a leader", there has to be someone that starts out as a defunct leader up until the time there are elections, someone is running the group. Even now, someone has to be "leading the DPA" movement.
Really, just looking real info here. Thanks,
Thanks,
04-22-2011, 04:19 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,716
PG, was the paycut, crappy work rules and pension issue a membership ratification?
04-22-2011, 05:13 PM
#55
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Exactly what did JM do to put the pension into liquidity shortfall? Did JM tell everyone over 50 to jump out and take their lump sum option?
Carl
04-22-2011, 05:17 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 581
With all due respect I think you are being a bit unfair...
I honestly don't remember when DAL's retirement benefits were changed to allow a 50% lump sum option. But that option, coupled with a very low GATT rate, and a mass exodus of pilots caused our retirement plan to go from over-funded status to under-funded and eventually taken over by the PBGC.
It was all legal, and IIRC, by law ALPA, even though they could see what was going on (and the likely end result), could not stop the mass exodus, the "run" on our pension plan, and its eventual takeover.
During my tenure at DAL (20+ years) the best (inflation adjusted) payrates I've experienced, as well as the best work rules, were those from contract 2000. John Malone was largely responsible for that contract (Negotiating Committee Chairman, IIRC).
My recollection is that Letter 50 (which included the 32.5% paycut and some work rule changes) was a sincere attempt to stave off bankruptcy (Remember Grinstein's "Do it once, and do it right mantra).
Just as Lee Moak "gets a pass" by many because of membership ratification, in the same vein John Malone should "get a pass" as Delta pilots supported the cuts Letter 50 contained.
My personal opinion is Malone would not have agreed to the the terms of Letter 51 which included the additional 14% pay cut and the 76 seat scope giveaway (my term). Lee Moak was responsible for those.
If my memory is off, feel free to correct it...
04-22-2011, 05:18 PM
#57
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I don't know if JM is a shill or not. But he couldn't possibly beat your abilities at shilling for ALPA.
Carl
04-22-2011, 05:26 PM
#58
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I gotta say, I am still on the fence about a different union. Can anyone give some info as to why this person might be a good leader of the DPA. And before anyone starts in with that garbage about "there isn't a leader right now, the pilots will elect a leader", there has to be someone that starts out as a defunct leader up until the time there are elections, someone is running the group. Even now, someone has to be "leading the DPA" movement.
Really, just looking real info here. Thanks,
Thanks,
Really, just looking real info here. Thanks,
Thanks,
Carl
04-22-2011, 05:54 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,596
PG,
With all due respect I think you are being a bit unfair...
I honestly don't remember when DAL's retirement benefits were changed to allow a 50% lump sum option. But that option, coupled with a very low GATT rate, and a mass exodus of pilots caused our retirement plan to go from over-funded status to under-funded and eventually taken over by the PBGC.
It was all legal, and IIRC, by law ALPA, even though they could see what was going on (and the likely end result), could not stop the mass exodus, the "run" on our pension plan, and its eventual takeover.
During my tenure at DAL (20+ years) the best (inflation adjusted) payrates I've experienced, as well as the best work rules, were those from contract 2000. John Malone was largely responsible for that contract (Negotiating Committee Chairman, IIRC).
My recollection is that Letter 50 (which included the 32.5% paycut and some work rule changes) was a sincere attempt to stave off bankruptcy (Remember Grinstein's "Do it once, and do it right mantra).
Just as Lee Moak "gets a pass" by many because of membership ratification, in the same vein John Malone should "get a pass" as Delta pilots supported the cuts Letter 50 contained.
My personal opinion is Malone would not have agreed to the the terms of Letter 51 which included the additional 14% pay cut and the 76 seat scope giveaway (my term). Lee Moak was responsible for those.
If my memory is off, feel free to correct it...
With all due respect I think you are being a bit unfair...
I honestly don't remember when DAL's retirement benefits were changed to allow a 50% lump sum option. But that option, coupled with a very low GATT rate, and a mass exodus of pilots caused our retirement plan to go from over-funded status to under-funded and eventually taken over by the PBGC.
It was all legal, and IIRC, by law ALPA, even though they could see what was going on (and the likely end result), could not stop the mass exodus, the "run" on our pension plan, and its eventual takeover.
During my tenure at DAL (20+ years) the best (inflation adjusted) payrates I've experienced, as well as the best work rules, were those from contract 2000. John Malone was largely responsible for that contract (Negotiating Committee Chairman, IIRC).
My recollection is that Letter 50 (which included the 32.5% paycut and some work rule changes) was a sincere attempt to stave off bankruptcy (Remember Grinstein's "Do it once, and do it right mantra).
Just as Lee Moak "gets a pass" by many because of membership ratification, in the same vein John Malone should "get a pass" as Delta pilots supported the cuts Letter 50 contained.
My personal opinion is Malone would not have agreed to the the terms of Letter 51 which included the additional 14% pay cut and the 76 seat scope giveaway (my term). Lee Moak was responsible for those.
If my memory is off, feel free to correct it...
The lump sum option was around since at least the 80's. The amount of the lump sums however soared with the huge increase in Greenslips and pay just before the retirment termination. It was rare prior to 95 to see many GS's. Average earnings for Captains were mostly a straight 75 hour cap. Right after the 2001 contract we had 50 plus pilots break 500,000 in pay in one year. 300,000 to 350,000 was the norm for FAE. Retirement payouts soared at the same time the market tanked. Did not take long to go from over funded to nothing!
04-23-2011, 05:58 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
My recollection is that Letter 50 (which included the 32.5% paycut and some work rule changes) was a sincere attempt to stave off bankruptcy (Remember Grinstein's "Do it once, and do it right mantra).
Just as Lee Moak "gets a pass" by many because of membership ratification, in the same vein John Malone should "get a pass" as Delta pilots supported the cuts Letter 50 contained.
My personal opinion is Malone would not have agreed to the the terms of Letter 51 which included the additional 14% pay cut and the 76 seat scope giveaway (my term). Lee Moak was responsible for those.
If my memory is off, feel free to correct it...
Just as Lee Moak "gets a pass" by many because of membership ratification, in the same vein John Malone should "get a pass" as Delta pilots supported the cuts Letter 50 contained.
My personal opinion is Malone would not have agreed to the the terms of Letter 51 which included the additional 14% pay cut and the 76 seat scope giveaway (my term). Lee Moak was responsible for those.
If my memory is off, feel free to correct it...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
