Denny Crane

ZZZING!!!!!!

Denny

asher888

Well Tommy my boy, im busy "earning a spine," according to Carl. Some call it paying dues. You see, Im 32, and my goal one day is to make it to the illustrious arena of the legacy carriers where there isnt a shred of disdain and every day is filled with optimism and hope. I cant wait to be your daddy's copilot and every day we can rejoice in cruise about how the company has finally realized our dreams of getting paid like brain surgeons do...(end sarcasm)

I am all for the big bucks, who doesnt want more money? But why drive yourself crazy because pay is below this or that, scope this, clause that...jeez, i hear alot of whining about whose jet is bigger than whose and why they shouldnt be compared to XYZ airlines or why they should, blah, blah, freakin blah. Im happy for you, that you made it to the mecca of all carriers, let me prostrate myself in front of your double-breasted black suit. But for everyone of you gods up there, there are 20 like me who aspire to "make it" one day. Of course I dont enjoy being paid WAY below industry standard, but im thankful to have a job to provide for my family. I have all the boxes checked, apps in, visiting all the fairs, just waiting for my shot at the big leagues. I will fight for my rights, have my voice heard and stay actively involved. However, my CBA WILL NOT dictate who I am as a person, especially off the clock. I have some extra perspective if you need some...

newKnow

alfa & 88,

I think to understand what I was trying to say, you have to look to what I responding to:



At the time, it looked to me like Pineapple was saying that the DAL pilot group was the only pilot group to negotiate any pay raise since 9/11. What you got in 2000 or 2001 does not count as since 9/11. "Negotiated any pay raises since," are the operative words I was responding to.

(But, now that pineapple said he was referring to "us" too, I feel special. )

As I said though, in 2002 the NWA pilot group negotiated a pay raise and the rates we got were higher than anything the DAL pilot group has achieved since 9/11. I suppose I could have thrown negotiated in there again, but now that you see what I was responding to, is that not factual?

scambo1

Ref the bold print: I know you know this, but management found a way for us to chip in without having to be nice or respect us.

Back to how to fix it or to be compensated: I think longevity pay has some merit, but not exclusively as a mid-stream change- and I get the time value of money vs A/C of choice part.

One aspect that can be examined is how does Air France compensate their pilots so well, yet somehow we continue to not be able to grow like they have? We are on their code, they are on ours, but who is the airline buying the big jets? How is this possible when we are clearly the cheaper employee group? Someone posted awhile back that 777A upgrade at air france was 10-11 years seniority...****... That is REAL time value of money.

iaflyer

My guess? Debt load. Delta (and other Major US airlines, not Southwest) took on too much debt over the years. It's killing us.

LandGreen2

asher...we are hazing you a bit, doncha' think!

anyway...point is that there are too many pilots in the name of "paying dues" that justify lower wages for the dream of making a better salary at the majors. don't get me wrong...we all had to pay our dues and build time...however, it is a sad day in our industry when today we have guys "paying dues"; building time in a 747 instead of a BE 1900 or CRJ. another win for airline management!

acl65pilot

Carl;
As far as I am concerned they are not our peers, we should still be paid more than they are. We flying an international network and they are a domestic operators that gets giddy when they ferry a flight to Latin America for mtc

acl65pilot

Agreed, and we just need to stop allowing it.

Pineapple Guy

I assume you are talking about me. I will stand by my statement that they aren't our peer. But don't put words in my mouth regarding pay comparisons. I have NEVER said "we can't hope to acieve (sp?) their pay"

What was your response the past 20 years when management claimed SWA was the peer of NWA pilots, and thus you guys should be paid the same as they??? How is that all of a sudden now you've changed your mind?

DAL 88 Driver

Is it possible the SWA pilots have been making a lot more than we all thought all these years? That AirTran Welcome document was a real eye opener. They are averaging 105 "trips for pay" per month. Their current Captain hourly rate of $210 is quite a bit less than our MD-88 Captain C2K rate of $237. But is it possible they were actually making more money than we were even back then? If they were averaging 105 TFP back in 2004 and their rate was anything close to $210, then they very well may have been averaging quite a bit MORE than our MD-88 Captains were averaging back then. Our MD-88 Captain rate in 2004 was $237. But I'm guessing the average pay was probably based on about 75 hours. Do the math. Maybe the SWA pilots have been laughing all the way to the bank for a lot longer than any of us realized.

And, yes, I do believe they are a "peer." Not in every sense. But they are soon to be our biggest domestic competitor in our biggest hub, ATL. And I see nothing wrong with advocating that our pilots doing comparable flying be paid AT LEAST as much as they are... and then apply that percentage increase to all our other fleets. As far as I'm concerned, that is a bare minimum for me and anything less than that will be an automatic NO vote. Same goes with scope. Any relaxation on scope is an automatic and resounding NO.