DAL early retirement 2009/2011
04-24-2011, 05:37 PM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Pineapple,
You are presenting what appear to be facts. But, that does not mean that your premise is factual. There are many reasons why APA hasn't gotten a raise and many reasons why we have gotten raises and everything else you point out. But, to lay blame and praise based on the negotiating tactics of the two groups alone is circumstantial at best -- not fact.
What should be noted as factual by you and ALPA is that they aren't gaining a whole lot of fans nowadays and any gripes made my 88 and Carl should be addressed.
Communication is key for the survival of ALPA.
Resting on their laurels and looking to take credit for past accomplishments will spell its demise.
That's the facts....
You are presenting what appear to be facts. But, that does not mean that your premise is factual. There are many reasons why APA hasn't gotten a raise and many reasons why we have gotten raises and everything else you point out. But, to lay blame and praise based on the negotiating tactics of the two groups alone is circumstantial at best -- not fact.
What should be noted as factual by you and ALPA is that they aren't gaining a whole lot of fans nowadays and any gripes made my 88 and Carl should be addressed.
Communication is key for the survival of ALPA.
Resting on their laurels and looking to take credit for past accomplishments will spell its demise.
That's the facts....
04-24-2011, 05:43 PM
#123
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Pineapple,
You are presenting what appear to be facts. But, that does not mean that your premise is factual. There are many reasons why APA hasn't gotten a raise and many reasons why we have gotten raises and everything else you point out. But, to lay blame and praise based on the negotiating tactics of the two groups alone is circumstantial at best -- not fact.
What should be noted as factual by you and ALPA is that they aren't gaining a whole lot of fans nowadays and any gripes made my 88 and Carl should be addressed.
Communication is key for the survival of ALPA.
Resting on their laurels and looking to take credit for past accomplishments will spell its demise.
That's the facts....
You are presenting what appear to be facts. But, that does not mean that your premise is factual. There are many reasons why APA hasn't gotten a raise and many reasons why we have gotten raises and everything else you point out. But, to lay blame and praise based on the negotiating tactics of the two groups alone is circumstantial at best -- not fact.
What should be noted as factual by you and ALPA is that they aren't gaining a whole lot of fans nowadays and any gripes made my 88 and Carl should be addressed.
Communication is key for the survival of ALPA.
Resting on their laurels and looking to take credit for past accomplishments will spell its demise.
That's the facts....
IOW ALPA is GM and DPA is Hyundai five years ago.
04-24-2011, 06:04 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Geez, do you guys not know the difference? FACTS are FACTS. You can interpret WHY they happened, if you want, but they are still FACTS.
Reread my post. I never stated that as fact. But let me repeat - APA has received ZERO in the past 5 years. THAT is a FACT. You can make excuses why they've received nothing; but you can't argue that the FACTS are as I stated them.
Now, that right there, my friend, is what is known as an OPINION. Please present a FACT to back it up.
FACT: DPA has received cards from approximately 18% of the Delta pilot group in the past year. Meaning....
FACT: 82% of the DAL pilot group has NOT sent in a card.
And as you say....
FACT: DPA has received cards from approximately 18% of the Delta pilot group in the past year. Meaning....
FACT: 82% of the DAL pilot group has NOT sent in a card.
And as you say....
04-24-2011, 06:40 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Geez, do you guys not know the difference? FACTS are FACTS. You can interpret WHY they happened, if you want, but they are still FACTS.
Reread my post. I never stated that as fact. But let me repeat - APA has received ZERO in the past 5 years. THAT is a FACT. You can make excuses why they've received nothing; but you can't argue that the FACTS are as I stated them.
Now, that right there, my friend, is what is known as an OPINION. Please present a FACT to back it up.
FACT: DPA has received cards from approximately 18% of the Delta pilot group in the past year. Meaning....
FACT: 82% of the DAL pilot group has NOT sent in a card.
And as you say....
Reread my post. I never stated that as fact. But let me repeat - APA has received ZERO in the past 5 years. THAT is a FACT. You can make excuses why they've received nothing; but you can't argue that the FACTS are as I stated them.
Now, that right there, my friend, is what is known as an OPINION. Please present a FACT to back it up.
FACT: DPA has received cards from approximately 18% of the Delta pilot group in the past year. Meaning....
FACT: 82% of the DAL pilot group has NOT sent in a card.
And as you say....
You are distorting my whole post by deletion. Here is the most important sentence I wrote, which you somehow forgot to copy.
Granted. Your figures by themselves are probably factual ( I don't care to double check your work.)
But, those figures are not what is being debated. You are, by inference, asserting that APA's negotiating method is inferior and ALPA's negotiating method is superior. This is not factual. Your facts = circumstantial evidence to advocate your position.
Now if you think ALPA is gaining a whole lot of fans nowadays, that's another discussion.
I had a long conversation with one of the captain reps in ATL and a guy on the negotiating committee earlier this month and they admitted it, so I don't understand why you can't see it.
But, if you think so, that is an opinion you are entitled to have.
04-24-2011, 09:06 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Funny, Carl. I just present FACTS.
FACT #1: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest bankruptcy claim value (in claim $$) of ANY of the 4 airlines that went through bankruptcy.
FACT #2: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest cash return on that claim and put more money in DAL pilots' pockets than ANY of the other 3 network carriers that went through the identical bankruptcy process.
FACT #1: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest bankruptcy claim value (in claim $$) of ANY of the 4 airlines that went through bankruptcy.
FACT #2: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest cash return on that claim and put more money in DAL pilots' pockets than ANY of the other 3 network carriers that went through the identical bankruptcy process.
The individual who single handedly accomplished facts 1 and 2 is none other than Douglas Parker, CEO of USAirways. His bid for Delta raised the asking price on debt from approx. 30 cents on the dollar to the mid 60's.
Your statement is completely untrue PG.
04-24-2011, 09:13 PM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
This ought to be good............
04-24-2011, 09:24 PM
#129
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Sorry, I meant talking FACTS.
04-24-2011, 09:34 PM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Pineapple, from here on out, I submit that you shall be referred to as "Ferret Face" as in Maj. Franklin Delano Marion "Ferret Face" Burns. Every organization, how ever big or small, has one. The officious, frenetic, pompous twit that is obsessed with ALPA order and who frequently regurgitates ALPA scripted talking points.
Last edited by TheManager; 04-24-2011 at 09:57 PM.
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