DAL early retirement 2009/2011
04-24-2011, 04:24 PM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
So when do we start communicating our point of view? So far, all I've heard is management's point of view... coming from ALPA! Management doesn't even have to make a case for why we should be paid what we're paid... ALPA is doing it FOR them, and has been ever since we came out of bankruptcy.
You and I may not like APA's approach or everything they've done. (Yes, believe it or not I don't think everything they've done is perfect.) But at least they are trying and advocating for restoration. Nobody has to guess what they're trying to achieve and what they think pilots are worth. Meanwhile, ALPA's tone and approach appears to be totally concessionary.
Look. I don't know if we're ultimately going to achieve full restoration or not. I think we can and should. But one thing I do know without a doubt. We're not going to achieve it if we don't define it as our objective and then set out with a firm resolve to get it done.
From all your postings, it seems that all you really care about is someone who can talk the talk; results don't matter. Interesting philosophy.
04-24-2011, 04:36 PM
#112
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
04-24-2011, 05:08 PM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
04-24-2011, 05:08 PM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
FACT #1: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest bankruptcy claim value (in claim $$) of ANY of the 4 airlines that went through bankruptcy.
FACT #2: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest cash return on that claim and put more money in DAL pilots' pockets than ANY of the other 3 network carriers that went through the identical bankruptcy process.
FACT #3: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest note value of ANY of the 3 airlines that had their pensions terminated in bankruptcy.
FACT #4: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, and now with the participation of the former NWA MEC, was the FIRST to negotiate an agreement PRIOR to a merger, which resulted in REAL cash put in your pocket in the form of shares of stock of the post merger company.
FACT #5: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, with the participation of the former NWA MEC, negotiated a contract that now has DAL pilots paid higher than ANY other pilot group among our peer group.
FACT #6: The Delta pilots have received larger percentage raises the past 3 years than ANY other airline.
FACT #7: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, with the participation of the former NWA MEC, negotiated a contract that put 6.5% of pay into pilots' pockets in February in the form of profit sharing.
FACT #8: APA, with their clear objectives, has achieved nothing.
Having said all that, it is my OPINION, that we are still grossly underpaid for the expertise we bring to the table; but it is also my OPINION that the NMB could care less about that.
Those are the facts, plain and simple. It doesn't mean I'm happy with where we are, but they do speak for themselves.
Meanwhile, DPA can't meet a single objective they lay out for themselves, nor can APA. And yet you guys support them, because they both TALK tough.
"RHETORIC not RESULTS". There's another bag tag for you. No charge.
04-24-2011, 05:16 PM
#118
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Well, if you say so. 
I think Carl pretty well covered that one.
Well, #1 - I don't think APA took as large a percentage pay cut as we did.
And, #2 - Yeah, that was all good. But in the grand scheme of things, it is a very small drop in the bucket and makes practically NO progress towards restoration. The "14.5% pay increases" amount to roughly the rate of inflation over that time period. So, what we really got was a cost of living adjustment to our bankruptcy/emergency rates. Even with those increases, it would still take a 70% increase to our end of contract pay rates in 2012 to restore our buying power back to where it was prior to the pay cuts. The 6.5% profit sharing for this one year was a little over $5K net (if I remember correctly). That's great, but I'm making about $100K LESS than I should be making this year! And the stock? Well, it went into my retirement account. I'll take it... but again, in the grand scheme of things, we lost the pension and I therefore have a lot of lost ground to make up in my retirement accounts. Nice to have the little boost, but I'm not ready to party like it's 1999. (or 2000 to be more specific)
And, again, (to use your phraseology) it did zero, zip, nada to close the gap on the $100K deficit in my income this year.
Well, again... I think Carl covered this one. A lack of any clear objective is a sure way to get (as you put it) "zero, zip, nada." I am most definitely looking for results. Can't say that I know the same to be true for ALPA, though. At least not the same result I think most of us are looking for.
I think Carl pretty well covered that one.
But while APA has had ZERO raises in the past 5 years, YOU'VE gotten 14.5% in pay increases (I think), PLUS 6.5% profit sharing, PLUS $~40,000 in stock (unless you sold already), PLUS 2% in DC. Meanwhile, APA, with their clear, concise objectives have zero, zip, nada.
And, #2 - Yeah, that was all good. But in the grand scheme of things, it is a very small drop in the bucket and makes practically NO progress towards restoration. The "14.5% pay increases" amount to roughly the rate of inflation over that time period. So, what we really got was a cost of living adjustment to our bankruptcy/emergency rates. Even with those increases, it would still take a 70% increase to our end of contract pay rates in 2012 to restore our buying power back to where it was prior to the pay cuts. The 6.5% profit sharing for this one year was a little over $5K net (if I remember correctly). That's great, but I'm making about $100K LESS than I should be making this year! And the stock? Well, it went into my retirement account. I'll take it... but again, in the grand scheme of things, we lost the pension and I therefore have a lot of lost ground to make up in my retirement accounts. Nice to have the little boost, but I'm not ready to party like it's 1999. (or 2000 to be more specific)
And, again, (to use your phraseology) it did zero, zip, nada to close the gap on the $100K deficit in my income this year.Well, again... I think Carl covered this one. A lack of any clear objective is a sure way to get (as you put it) "zero, zip, nada." I am most definitely looking for results. Can't say that I know the same to be true for ALPA, though. At least not the same result I think most of us are looking for.
04-24-2011, 05:22 PM
#119
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
FACT #1: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest bankruptcy claim value (in claim $$) of ANY of the 4 airlines that went through bankruptcy.
FACT #2: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest cash return on that claim and put more money in DAL pilots' pockets than ANY of the other 3 network carriers that went through the identical bankruptcy process.
FACT #3: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, extracted the highest note value of ANY of the 3 airlines that had their pensions terminated in bankruptcy.
FACT #4: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, and now with the participation of the former NWA MEC, was the FIRST to negotiate an agreement PRIOR to a merger, which resulted in REAL cash put in your pocket in the form of shares of stock of the post merger company.
FACT #5: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, with the participation of the former NWA MEC, negotiated a contract that now has DAL pilots paid higher than ANY other pilot group among our peer group.
FACT #6: The Delta pilots have received larger percentage raises the past 3 years than ANY other airline.
FACT #7: The Delta MEC, led by Lee Moak, with the participation of the former NWA MEC, negotiated a contract that put 6.5% of pay into pilots' pockets in February in the form of profit sharing.
From Here To Eternity Beach Scene
04-24-2011, 05:37 PM
#120
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
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