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04-14-2011, 07:31 AM

#201

tsquare

No longer cares

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Posts: 12,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You're new here...aren't you.

Carl

That's pretty funny... check your PM Carl...

04-14-2011, 07:38 AM

#202

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck

Which is what created the regionals of today. Short term self preservation. It's a catch 22. We all want to hate it but can't as it's now part of our system.

No, it's not a catch 22. It's just a fight that needs to be fought. We at the majors have got to demand stronger scope, and at the very minimum, have an agreement that as each contract expires, there will be no extensions or renewals. On the regional side, those pilots need to fight for better pay and work rules. If they ALL fight for it, then their management's won't have the leverage of saying they'll move the flying to someone else.

At the majors, our problem is ALPA. Because we'll have to fight them just as hard as management for any scope strengthening.

Carl

04-14-2011, 08:04 AM

#203

Rolf

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Joined APC: Mar 2010

Posts: 659

Ok, so we have established that the majors gave away scope (Carls fault) and that the resulting regionals put significant downward pressure on wages etc. Rather than continuing this circlejerk, how about WE look for solutions. I think that about covers the first 3 steps in OUR 12 step program. Management must love threads like this.

04-14-2011, 08:11 AM

#204

Rolf

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Joined APC: Mar 2010

Posts: 659

What Carl said in post 202. I know, I know.....I agreed with Carl

04-14-2011, 08:14 AM

#205

BoilerUP

The NeverEnding Story

Joined APC: Sep 2005

Posts: 7,609

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Spoken by someone who has no clue as to what is actually in DAL's scope language.

Carl

Carl,

Your Section 1 has been posted on this board multiple times, including this thread.

04-14-2011, 09:17 AM

#206

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

Carl,

Your Section 1 has been posted on this board multiple times, including this thread.

I know. I would have thought you would have read it before you made such wrong comments about it. Oh well.

Carl

04-14-2011, 09:18 AM

#207

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolf

What Carl said in post 202. I know, I know.....I agreed with Carl

It had to happen at some point. Hopefully it won't happen again.

Carl

04-14-2011, 09:51 AM

#208

jayme

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Joined APC: Aug 2008

Posts: 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I know it's key to your "argument" that you can only get qualified in today's world by flying for a regional, but when you make things up you just look silly...er.

Carl

It is not "key" at all. It is simply a fact that regionals prepare a large percentage of pilots to the majors. There are very few openings for military pilots, so the 30,000 regional pilots or so that exist would not be able to pursue their dreams if it weren't for regionals.

04-14-2011, 09:54 AM

#209

jayme

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Joined APC: Aug 2008

Posts: 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Wow...you thought that was a serious question? OK. Just for you, here is the answer. If that happened, our contract would consider the 747 to have insufficient bidders, and all those positions would be forced on the bottom of the seniority list. That would really reduce the cost of 747 flying for the company. That's why Delta pilots haven't done that. It would do nothing to raise pay, only reduce the company's costs.

What we've done instead of your plan, is fight for higher pay in all categories (including the 747) during negotiations. This is a strange and foreign concept for you I know. The fun part is being told by people like you afterward, that our fighting for higher pay is ruining the industry and taking pay away from those pilots at the bottom of the industry.

Carl

But the same economic force that you expect regional pilots to respect (i.e. falling on their sword for the greater good) should still apply, right. Every pilot should just no apply to Delta (or where ever) until the rate got fixed.

04-14-2011, 10:06 AM

#210

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jayme

It is not "key" at all. It is simply a fact that regionals prepare a large percentage of pilots to the majors.

There are also many other ways pilots prepare for a job at the majors. The only way you can keep your "argument" afloat is by the patently false inference that regional airlines are the only way to get hired by a major. It's not only wrong, it's not even close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayme

There are very few openings for military pilots,

Simply not true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayme

...so the 30,000 regional pilots or so that exist would not be able to pursue their dreams if it weren't for regionals.

If their dream is to work for a regional, then you're correct. And I hope they're enjoying living the dream. But if their dream is to join a major some day, you must understand how your actions are all but killing your dream.

Carl