Fugazi

What I meant was that the elite or maybe I should say the more senior are easily swayed in negotiations to look out for themselves. Management knows they can offer a small pay raise to some of the more senior and get scope concessions in return. They also know that some elitist pilots will typically pit themselves against other pilot groups because after all they are better. They also know that some elitist pilots will typically take the money and run and not share it with the more junior ones in the ranks. This makes the negotiations much easier from the management perspective and the bean counters rely on it.

This is just my 2 cents and understand it may be flawed in some situations but it is my take after seeing how many things have played at the last 20 years. It's not just regional pilots working for too little money. It's also many FOs at the major airline level especially Airways. Pilots are their own worst enemy and management relies on this.

And thanks Whidby for the polite post. I agree with everything you posted. I'm just tired of folks thinking regional pilots should feel accountable or guilty for taking an entry level airline job. It is not those pilot's fault for the equipment we fly. These jets showed up on everyone's property and higher pay came with them.

FlyJSH

I admit I am a bit late to the party. I only got my Commercial in 1996.... the same year Comair got CRJs. So, I don't know where the mainlines got their pilots when Convairs, 1900s, and Fokkers were the mainstay of "commuter" airlines. Of course in those days, those planes flew under part 135. (I assume you know the difference between 121 and 135 back then. However, if you don't, it is why commuter planes are typically 19 pax or 29 pax. INTRAstate under 30 pax and INTERstate under 20 pax could be 135. That is the reason a 1900, J31/32, and Bnaderante are 19 pax; and a J41 and Brazillia are 29 pax)

But it doesn't really matter. TODAY, mainlines look for 121 time. And the easiest way for me (and many others) to get it is through a "regional".


So, YOU TELL ME, what do I need to get on my resume to get an interview? (notice I just said an interview, I am not begging for a job, just a chance)

Maddoggin

If this doesn't convince people of the obvious scope violation I don't know what will.

slumav505

it's clear as pilots we need to snuff out the regional 121 market. There's only 2 ways to do that.

1.) Mainline takes back scope
2.) Regional pilots need to fight management to the death on every last aspect of pay, QOL, working rules, staffing levels, ect so our contracts get more in line with mainline operators effectively pricing ourselves out.

But as long as one group isn't willing to strike tomorrow over exactly that we're stuck with option 1. Take it back guys, those of us younger guys who still see a future in this are counting on you here.

BoilerUP

Its simple economics that regional management simply will not cave to pilot demands for radical increases in compensation & work rules, as doing so would make them uncompetitive financially uncompetitive. Management has a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, and while public companies often accept lower margins than private companies, they're not going to allow labor prices to put any sizable crimp on their profitability as it would have a major impact on their stock price.

Its also highly unlikely that, in a down economy and even with a "labor friendly" NMB that a regional airline pilot group would get released for self-help after demanding radical increases in compensation & work rules that are greatly above the current industry average.

Pattern bargaining is the best option to "raise" the going rate of regional pilot labor across the board, but getting there isn't going to be easy and it sure as hell isn't going to be quick.

satchip

The problem with #2 is whenever a regional group becomes too expensive due to better pay or longevity raises, it is abandoned and a new start up with zero longevity takes the contract.

I really don't think you pilots at the regional level have any power to affect this, contrary to what Carl the Imperious has to say. It really has to happen in the mainline corporate board room and in the government. The 1500 hour rule is a good start. Attaching liability to mainline carriers might bring it to the tipping point. More brand awareness at the corporate level will be the final straw.

BoilerUP

Nope.

Note Chautauqua does not operate any aircraft that violate DAL scope.

TonyWilliams

No, it won't. Just like the many other pitfalls in the industry do not. They will line up to pay to fly. The industry will get the rule watered down, one way or another (Multi-pilot, reduction in hours for qualifying school grads, etc). The best case scenario for the airline is a constant turnover at the bottom of the pay scale to keep overall costs low.

And the planes WILL get bigger, because quite simply, they are more economical to operate. The consumers do not care whether the maintenance is done in El Salvador, the crews are paid nothing (or paying to fly), etc.

My former airline hasn't paid salaries for two months, yet people keep flying, and new hires keep showing up to replace those who leave.

Carl Spackler

Wow! This is gettin better by the minute.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Wow...you thought that was a serious question? OK. Just for you, here is the answer. If that happened, our contract would consider the 747 to have insufficient bidders, and all those positions would be forced on the bottom of the seniority list. That would really reduce the cost of 747 flying for the company. That's why Delta pilots haven't done that. It would do nothing to raise pay, only reduce the company's costs.

What we've done instead of your plan, is fight for higher pay in all categories (including the 747) during negotiations. This is a strange and foreign concept for you I know. The fun part is being told by people like you afterward, that our fighting for higher pay is ruining the industry and taking pay away from those pilots at the bottom of the industry.

Carl