slumav505

Take scope back, you won't hear a peep from me. Until then asking someone to quit their job with out a real solid reason isn't a good plan either. The whole system is skewed. Too much based on seniority and not enough equality across the board. Ideally the best thing for all of us is to narrow the gap between topping out and the bottom.

jayme

Can you answer a question you "deflected" earlier? How many(what percentage of) non-121, non-military guys has your airline hired?

If the number is as low as I expect, question 2 is: how are aspiring major airline pilots supposed to get qualified to apply if they don't fly for a regional?

On a different subject: When did I ever show "glee" about the present market wages?

Finally, I did in fact turn down Cathay's offer: HK$880,000 signing bonus and the monthly salary HK$48,687. That's at 17% income tax. I have absolutely no reason to lie. I guess if I had a good reason to I could scan my job offer and e-mail it to you, but I really couldn't be bothered. This whole thread is about your poor stewardship of the profession and now your "deflection" towards the guys you outsourced the jobs to.

Carl Spackler

I never deflect answers ace. I was not able to accurately answer his question with regard to my entire company. I could only accurately answer the make-up of my class. Now if I was you, I could have answered a different question altoghether...you would have at least understood that.

The way many OTHER guys that are getting hired by FedEx, SWA, Delta, etc., are getting qualified. Most via the military, some via corporate, some via foreign carriers, and some via the non-sched freight world. And yes, some guys get hired from the regionals. I know it's key to your "argument" that you can only get qualified in today's world by joining a regional, but you are just plain wrong.

Glee may have been a poor choice of words on my part. Your posts however do reflect a strong defense of what you make as appropriate per market forces.

I know that's what you're trying to make this thread about, but once again you are wrong. Go back and re-read the originator's post. Then come back and tell me that Quagmire thought this thread is about the poor stewardship of the profession.

Carl

FlyJSH

"In my class, there were 60% military, 20% furloughed from other airlines (I was in that group), and 20% flew for commuter airlines."

Assuming these numbers are fairly representative of your company, I rest my case.

Fugazi

You are going out on a limb again to try and dilute the argument. You are absolutely correct that the above is not arguable but no one was ever arguing that. All of that is purely common sense and I don't hate hearing it. You sir are the one who hates hearing where most of the blame lies and your silly defense mechanism is to demonize regional pilots.

It is ludicrous that you think regional pilots should all go pound the pavement to solve your problems. You need to take your bitterness and anger back in house if you want to improve this industry. Major airline pilots have the real power to change things. You all had the power in the first place but unfortunately when you stood up for what you felt you were worth you did it at other pilots expense and at the expense of the industry. I'm all for standing strong to fight for the highest possible wages but not with the consequence of screwing your scope language or the junior guys.

Elitist pilots will always be the bean counters best friend.

Whidbey

Fugazi, you're right. Major airline pilots bear responsibility for selling scope.

However, except for you, none of the other folks going after Carl want to address his central thesis: Every hour you fly for a commuter at those wages further degrades your chances (and everyone else's) of flying for a major airline.

I'm not passing judgement, I have nothing but respect for the guys that have such a love of flying that they are willing to take out crippling student loans and work under such challenging conditions to pursue an airline career. I also admire the work ethic it must take. I just respectfully submit that we must concede Carl's point: Flying outsourced work for peanuts is just making that goal less attainable.

To be fair, Carl didn't tell anyone to go pound pavement to solve his problems. (I should also point out that it's not just his problem or mine. It's your problem, too). He has just righty pointed out that there are other paths to that goal that do not degrade the brass ring that we aspire to.

Relatedly, one major source of competition for a commuter pilot's place in the majors is, in my opinion, being quickly reduced. That is the number of military trained aviators that want seek a career in the airlines. Around my last sqadron, more guys were either staying in the military or pursuing other careers. (MBA, Law School, Medical School). A lot of them don't really see the airlines as a profession any more... More like something you do to supplement your retirement or to do in addition to your guard or reserve job.

I'm not saying those are my attitudes or opinions. I'm glad to be here and I think we should be very proud of our profession. Unfortunately, they are the thoughts of a good many others.

Respectfully,

Whidbey

Carl Spackler

What case would that be?

Carl

Carl Spackler

I've never shirked my responsibility and my blame for being part of the major pilots' group that caved in on scope. If you had read my previous posts, you would know that. But you clearly read what you want into posts with which you disagree.

Never advocated such a thing. Further proof of what I've said above.

This is another sad and puzzling side-effect of working for a regional. On the one hand, you youngsters demean us for not caring for the profession. But when we try to raise the bar for the profession by improving pay and working conditions, you say we did it on the backs of other pilots and the industry as a whole. Are you not used to people seeing your transparent arguments where you are never to blame?

Translation: Since I just got through saying that increases in the profession can only happen on the backs of others and the profession itself, what I'm really saying is "I'm NEVER for standing strong to fight...for anything."

Actually, we're the bean counters' worst enemies. It's those that work for beans...that the bean counters really love.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Thanks Whidbey...that's exactly what I've been trying to say. I'm just not as eloquent as you.

Carl

Boomer

In Russia, quote posts you.