Carl Spackler

Your actions were laudible. They were the same actions that many of us took when we said no to TA's, then voted to strike. Then actually went on strike.

You did the right thing. I hope you never become part of that other 90%.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Why, yes:

Any other questions?

Carl

TrojanCMH

In all seriousness you're starting to sound like the "I'm better than you because I'm at a major" pilot. It's easy to say this stuff as you're sitting atop some heavy jet and flying 4 legs a month. But if you really are who you say you are I'm gonna guess you probably went through the Air Force or Navy just when jet engines were really starting to become the norm, did your time, and got hired on at some form of the major you are employed today. I may be wrong but either way if you are a CA on a 747 then I'm sure that things have changed considerably in the several decades it has taken to get to where you are today... Ever since scope was taken/given away (wherever you choose to lay the blame the reality is we are where we are) the whole career progression has developed a regional slant to it. You spouting off from your 747 and telling us little guys what to do is like some old senile guy telling us about how he used to walk 8 miles to school everyday in 6 feet of fresh snow. I do respect your experience and all that you've done but times are different and the reality is if you want to pursue an airline career the regionals are the option that most of the new 121 pilot population has decided to take. So whether you like it or not it's happening and there isn't anything you can say to us that are already involved in it to stop it from happening (you aren't gonna get thousands of pilots to get up and quit their jobs and you aren't gonna get thousands of new pilots not to take them). So from here on out why don't you give us some realistic solutions to the problem rather than telling us we're all a bunch of idiots. Like I said before if the jobs are there people will take them, if there were no "regional" jobs to take this wouldn't even be a topic of debate...

Carl Spackler

Why did you use so many words to be so unresponsive?

Go back and read just my last two posts, and try again to state something that actually responds in any way to what I've said.

Carl

Wiscopilot

Depending on where Carl works, odds are he has taken around a 40% pay cut compared to a pre-bankruptcy 747 captain.
That is shameful and I suggest this movement should start from the top. If no one bid for the 747 captain vacancy they would have to raise the rate and it would trickle down to the rest of us. (kind of like rain, or urine)
Carl stand up for yourself and show us some old school spine!

Fishfreighter

Hopefully, the new legislation requiring 1500 hours and an ATP for part 121 ops will go a LONG way in eliminating this kind of "thinking".



Its called Republican "thinking". He's probably an FFDO, too.

He knows what he's worth.

Sad, isn't it? Just tonight I turned on a local bartender to a job that will pay him roughly 3 to 4 times what a regional F/O will make. He'll get it too, without having to pay $100k for a handful of licenses what won't mean squat.

And yet, they slave on in the HOPE they'll have what we have one day. Unfortunately, with airlines like VX and AGT driving down narrowbody rates, they'll NEVER achieve it even if they are the one in a thousand who manage to land a legacy job.

Its not the brain that has been modified. Its the testicles that have been removed. Steers only look forward to the next hay drop.

"Used to" being the operative phrase.

SNAP!

SNAP x 2!

Those who will not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Seems like a lot of RJ pilots need to read "Flying the Line" and "Flying the Line 2" a couple times for comprehension.

Yep. "I had to feed my family." Seems like we've heard this "reasoning" on this and other threads. Its a slippery slope...many have found out the scarlet letter "S" lasts FOREVER.

[Mod edit: delete quote]

Rance

Carl, I apologize if I have not contributed to this forum in the past few years as much as you have in the past few days, but I must say that for one who aspires to someday follow in the career progression that you have been so fortuitously blessed, I am very disappointed if you represent the seniority that we all strive to follow. As I read your posts, I try to see your view. What is so disappointing is how someone who claims to be in such a senior position, continues to diminish the hopes and wills of those that strive to be where you are. As someone stated earlier in the post, you did not begin your career in this current market and yet so easily come across as the leading expert. As I was taught in the military, mentorship and constructive support are the keys to the success of any movement with the junior base. And yet all I gather from your continued babble is how you continue to enjoy trying to knock that base down into your false ideals. Move on; stop breaking down those that have desires.

Fishfreighter

Rance,

MY military training emphasized accomplishing the mission within the realities of the current situation.

What Carl is saying is EXACTLY what is happening whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Truth is a funny thing. It tends to irritate those who will not accept it at face value. Mentorship is what Carl is trying to apply to you guys. Please listen to him.

Fugazi

You missed the point. To imply I made a blanket statement that "major pilots are destroying the industry by demanding high wages" is unfair and obviously doesn't fit the context of the thread. That style of arguing is typical of someone who is relentlessly resourceful at twisting words/meanings and effectively dilutes important concepts. It's more fun to just place all blame on those you consider inferior to yourself isn't it?

Let me try again and I'll be reasonable. Not all concessions dealing with scope were given away by pilots and their reps. Sometimes courts forced concessions. But for the most part demanding what you were worth as the internet began to auction tickets to the lowest bidder was possible only at the expense of others. These pilots you loath for flying RJs for too small a wage should be flying turbo props. Unfortunately they are not because the turbo prop flying companies were given RJs that your labor group and it's reps said were OK to give them. To place blame on the guys who were happily paying their dues in turbo props is absurd. They were handed jets and a better pay scale to continue doing the same job. All they had to do was just keep showing up to work and collect a bigger paycheck.

Unfortunately those pilots eventually caught the Captainitis just like you have sitting up in the 747. They began to feel elite and that they should make their regional jet job worth staying at for the rest of their career so when contract negotiations came around they did exactly that. They bargained for what they felt they were worth but it came at the expense of others. FOs would never make over $40 an hour just so the captains could line their pockets and make over $100 an hour. They would justify such selfish behavior by saying things like "they'll upgrade so fast it won't matter" and "FOs are just using the job as a stepping stone, I'm here until I retire." Next thing you know the only way regionals can hire new pilots is by lowing minimums to 250 hrs.

So is it still the 300 hr wonder who has no spine to stand up for what he's worth that is really the problem here? I don't think so. You're understandably angry now at what happened and no doubt realize how naive it was to not see these little go carts with wings for what they really were.. a threat to your livelihood and to the entire industry.

The bean counters laugh all the way to the bank because they know that proud pilots are the most easily exploitable labor who will readily defecate on one another. Lorenzo and others knew it back in the day and they wrote the book on how to easily apply the formula at any airline. Elitist pilots, mysterious new Canadian and Brazilian jets, a new format of internet ticket sales, and finally 9/11 created the perfect situation for the bean counters. What kills me is you elitists are still falling for it and simply blaming other pilots! I say take some responsibility and quit giving management such wet dreams by simply blaming other pilots.

I pray you guys can do what you're hoping to do and put an end to the subcontracting of mainline sized equipment and if it costs me my current job I know it will be for the better.

FlyJSH

Why yes, Carl, I have a question. (For the record I am not involved in the RAH issue.) How do I get an interview at YOUR airline?

I fly a turboprop. I fly people from exotic places like Victoria and College Station Texas to Houston to connect with mainline Continental/United.

I started flying for money in 1997. After a year of instructing, I challenged my coworkers: Why are we taking a pay cut to fly bigger planes with more people on board? The response was, "Because it is the way to get to the majors".

I refused to take a pay cut. I chose to fly a Caravan hauling freight making a bit more than instrucing. I was DUMB enough to think that experience would get me hired at a major.

It did not.

So, I took a job flying a 421 hauling patients. I thought that experience would be good for the mainlines.

It wasn't.

So there I was, 5500 hours, 2000 multi, and 5000 hours PIC. I was making 45K. I wanted to move to the majors. Unfortunately, I was not an ex military pilot (sorry, I was just an enlisted man). I had no problem with military pilots and aviators getting jobs before me: IMHO they earned it.

However, the military was not producing enough pilots to fill the need of the mainlines.

Unfortunately, I was not somebody's son, so Nepotism didn't help me. I was just an average Joe who worked his way up through the ranks. As a result, I got NO INTERVIEWS.

After fighting the good fight for over a decade, I figured out that as a "civilian" pilot, the only way I could get looked at was by biting the bullet, taking the pay cut, and going to a regional. Maybe then, one day, I could get an INTERVIEW.... let alone a job.

My question to YOU Carl, is (other than former military) how many part 91 and 135 pilots has your company hired? What is the percentage? And of those, how many reaped the nepotism benefits?

I don't claim to be the best pilot. I do follow the rule of Safe, Legal, and Prudent. I move the goods, but refuse to jeopardize the company, the pax, or my license to make a flight. But I am infuriated when a former military guy, b#tches because we lowly civi pilots took the path of least resistance (especially because I may well have been the guy who spotted the targets for you) and your company favors prior 121 pilots.

You say regional pilots should be willing to expect to be regional pilots for the rest of their lives. Well, I am perfectly happy being a forth year Saab captain,especially since I would take a significant pay cut if I chose to go to a mainline (except Delta, where I would about break even). (Yeah, I hear you, "But you make more in the long run". That is exactly what a buddy said to me when he went to Gulfstream and PAID to get a job)

But what do I know, I am just a sell out.