Stay at Continental (United) or go for FedEx
01-18-2011, 09:37 PM
#51
Where's my Mai Tai?
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: fins to the left, fins to the right
Posts: 1,755
In 2007, I interviewed at UPS because I wanted to work for a company that didn't have a history of furloughing its employees, was growing and offered some stability. It didn't hurt that I flew cargo when I was furloughed the first time and found the lifestyle suited me just fine, so I knew what to expect in terms of the type of flying. At the time, I lacked the wide body flying international experience that most people had who received a class date, so I wound up in the pool in September 2007.
01-18-2011, 10:02 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Cap. 737
Posts: 293
I certainly wouldn't rule it out but I would have to think about it pretty hard, talk to my family and then think some more. Watching how everything has gone down at UPS hasn't been very reassuring. If you had asked me this question four years ago, I wouldn't have hesitated. Most of all, I hope the 109 get recalled in the very near future. Being furloughed is never a fun thing and for some of these guys, it's the second time around, having been furloughed from a previous employer, but it's especially difficult to understand when the employer is still making money. I hope things get better soon.
I will say this, it sure seems like a lot of UPS pilots gave up income and made a considerable effort to try and avoid the furlough from happening. There is a lot to be said for that type of unity.
I will say this, it sure seems like a lot of UPS pilots gave up income and made a considerable effort to try and avoid the furlough from happening. There is a lot to be said for that type of unity.
01-19-2011, 12:45 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 221
Don't compare commuting at a pax carrier to commuting at Purple. It is very easy especially if you are in a hub city for a major airline. As you probably know, many of our trips begin with a DH and the company picks up the tab equal to the fare from your base to the aircraft. There are trips that DH to IAH but you won't be able to hold those for a while. Once people can hold there hometown they tend to camp out on those lines for a while. I did three years flying the same line cutting off the DH days on Sunday/Monday and Friday.
As far as jumpseating goes on our aircraft, the only difficult commutes are in cities where there is a large ex-military populace (Denver, Jax, ORF, etc...).
For pay and bennies. We are in negotiations right now and our next contract will be better, guaranteed. FedEx made money during the recession and now the company is stuffing it's pockets during the recovery.
Night flying sucks. No if, ands, or buts. However you have many ways to mitigate the pain. Ask your sponsor. I am at 70%ish in my seat and haven't flown a week of night hub turns in a long time. I usually have to put up with a night/day swap and then the rest of the week is day duty.
As far as jumpseating goes on our aircraft, the only difficult commutes are in cities where there is a large ex-military populace (Denver, Jax, ORF, etc...).
For pay and bennies. We are in negotiations right now and our next contract will be better, guaranteed. FedEx made money during the recession and now the company is stuffing it's pockets during the recovery.
Night flying sucks. No if, ands, or buts. However you have many ways to mitigate the pain. Ask your sponsor. I am at 70%ish in my seat and haven't flown a week of night hub turns in a long time. I usually have to put up with a night/day swap and then the rest of the week is day duty.
01-19-2011, 02:01 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 111
I did what you are contemplating about 5 years ago--I left UAL for FDX. I was never furloughed at UAL (I quit), I left for the following reasons:
(DISCLAIMER: Some of these can be viewed as paranoid, insane, clueless, overly pessimistic, even misinformed--but they helped me take the giant gamble, and I've never looked back).
1. Barirer to entry. Any crazy hedge fund group can rally up $200 million and start Jet Orange, Cheap Bus, Air Free, etc. and stick it to the Majors' in their niche market. Sure the start up won't be around but for a few years, but in that time, the Majors' have to match their fares, and this cuts into profits (i.e.your paycheck). The dollars needed to fund a startup that will compete with FedEx (domestically), is in the Billions.
2. The Business Traveller. This is the Majors' profit center. With the advances in tele-conferencing, the BT is travelling less. In the cargo world, you can't tele-conference a box.
3. Boxes vs Pax/FAs'. Covered in depth already, and from my point of view, it's all true.
4. Career goals and QOL. It's true, flying night hub turns suck. But I looked at the last 10 years of my time at FedEx not the first 5 years. If I stayed at UAL, I planned on flying WB Intl the last 10 years before retirement; I plan on doing the same at FedEx, so that made it an apples to apples comparison on career expectations and QOL.
5. Terrorism. I think it is safe to say that terrorists would prefer to bring down a pax jet over a box jet. I weighed this fact not in the fear of dying, but in the fear of market collapse. Some experts say it is not a matter of "if" but "when" the towelheads shoot a MANPAD at a domestic jet. I don't want to discuss if the plane will crash or not--it doesn't matter--no one will want to get on a pax jet after this event. There is nothing the gov't can do or say to make travellers "feel" safe against this threat. (yes, anti-missile defenses are being tested, but implentation would take years). On the cargo side--people will still order stuff from Amazon....
6. Management. The pax carrier CEOs come in and see how much they can take in 5 yrs. The management at FedEx appears to look long term, and stays with the company for decades.
Maybe some of this helps, maybe it's just the ramblings of an idiot, but I have slept peacefully the last 5 years, something I wasn't able to do from 2001-2005......
(DISCLAIMER: Some of these can be viewed as paranoid, insane, clueless, overly pessimistic, even misinformed--but they helped me take the giant gamble, and I've never looked back).
1. Barirer to entry. Any crazy hedge fund group can rally up $200 million and start Jet Orange, Cheap Bus, Air Free, etc. and stick it to the Majors' in their niche market. Sure the start up won't be around but for a few years, but in that time, the Majors' have to match their fares, and this cuts into profits (i.e.your paycheck). The dollars needed to fund a startup that will compete with FedEx (domestically), is in the Billions.
2. The Business Traveller. This is the Majors' profit center. With the advances in tele-conferencing, the BT is travelling less. In the cargo world, you can't tele-conference a box.
3. Boxes vs Pax/FAs'. Covered in depth already, and from my point of view, it's all true.
4. Career goals and QOL. It's true, flying night hub turns suck. But I looked at the last 10 years of my time at FedEx not the first 5 years. If I stayed at UAL, I planned on flying WB Intl the last 10 years before retirement; I plan on doing the same at FedEx, so that made it an apples to apples comparison on career expectations and QOL.
5. Terrorism. I think it is safe to say that terrorists would prefer to bring down a pax jet over a box jet. I weighed this fact not in the fear of dying, but in the fear of market collapse. Some experts say it is not a matter of "if" but "when" the towelheads shoot a MANPAD at a domestic jet. I don't want to discuss if the plane will crash or not--it doesn't matter--no one will want to get on a pax jet after this event. There is nothing the gov't can do or say to make travellers "feel" safe against this threat. (yes, anti-missile defenses are being tested, but implentation would take years). On the cargo side--people will still order stuff from Amazon....
6. Management. The pax carrier CEOs come in and see how much they can take in 5 yrs. The management at FedEx appears to look long term, and stays with the company for decades.
Maybe some of this helps, maybe it's just the ramblings of an idiot, but I have slept peacefully the last 5 years, something I wasn't able to do from 2001-2005......
01-19-2011, 02:12 PM
#55
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 63
I did what you are contemplating about 5 years ago--I left UAL for FDX. I was never furloughed at UAL (I quit), I left for the following reasons:
(DISCLAIMER: Some of these can be viewed as paranoid, insane, clueless, overly pessimistic, even misinformed--but they helped me take the giant gamble, and I've never looked back).
1. Barirer to entry. Any crazy hedge fund group can rally up $200 million and start Jet Orange, Cheap Bus, Air Free, etc. and stick it to the Majors' in their niche market. Sure the start up won't be around but for a few years, but in that time, the Majors' have to match their fares, and this cuts into profits (i.e.your paycheck). The dollars needed to fund a startup that will compete with FedEx (domestically), is in the Billions.
2. The Business Traveller. This is the Majors' profit center. With the advances in tele-conferencing, the BT is travelling less. In the cargo world, you can't tele-conference a box.
3. Boxes vs Pax/FAs'. Covered in depth already, and from my point of view, it's all true.
4. Career goals and QOL. It's true, flying night hub turns suck. But I looked at the last 10 years of my time at FedEx not the first 5 years. If I stayed at UAL, I planned on flying WB Intl the last 10 years before retirement; I plan on doing the same at FedEx, so that made it an apples to apples comparison on career expectations and QOL.
5. Terrorism. I think it is safe to say that terrorists would prefer to bring down a pax jet over a box jet. I weighed this fact not in the fear of dying, but in the fear of market collapse. Some experts say it is not a matter of "if" but "when" the towelheads shoot a MANPAD at a domestic jet. I don't want to discuss if the plane will crash or not--it doesn't matter--no one will want to get on a pax jet after this event. There is nothing the gov't can do or say to make travellers "feel" safe against this threat. (yes, anti-missile defenses are being tested, but implentation would take years). On the cargo side--people will still order stuff from Amazon....
6. Management. The pax carrier CEOs come in and see how much they can take in 5 yrs. The management at FedEx appears to look long term, and stays with the company for decades.
Maybe some of this helps, maybe it's just the ramblings of an idiot, but I have slept peacefully the last 5 years, something I wasn't able to do from 2001-2005......
(DISCLAIMER: Some of these can be viewed as paranoid, insane, clueless, overly pessimistic, even misinformed--but they helped me take the giant gamble, and I've never looked back).
1. Barirer to entry. Any crazy hedge fund group can rally up $200 million and start Jet Orange, Cheap Bus, Air Free, etc. and stick it to the Majors' in their niche market. Sure the start up won't be around but for a few years, but in that time, the Majors' have to match their fares, and this cuts into profits (i.e.your paycheck). The dollars needed to fund a startup that will compete with FedEx (domestically), is in the Billions.
2. The Business Traveller. This is the Majors' profit center. With the advances in tele-conferencing, the BT is travelling less. In the cargo world, you can't tele-conference a box.
3. Boxes vs Pax/FAs'. Covered in depth already, and from my point of view, it's all true.
4. Career goals and QOL. It's true, flying night hub turns suck. But I looked at the last 10 years of my time at FedEx not the first 5 years. If I stayed at UAL, I planned on flying WB Intl the last 10 years before retirement; I plan on doing the same at FedEx, so that made it an apples to apples comparison on career expectations and QOL.
5. Terrorism. I think it is safe to say that terrorists would prefer to bring down a pax jet over a box jet. I weighed this fact not in the fear of dying, but in the fear of market collapse. Some experts say it is not a matter of "if" but "when" the towelheads shoot a MANPAD at a domestic jet. I don't want to discuss if the plane will crash or not--it doesn't matter--no one will want to get on a pax jet after this event. There is nothing the gov't can do or say to make travellers "feel" safe against this threat. (yes, anti-missile defenses are being tested, but implentation would take years). On the cargo side--people will still order stuff from Amazon....
6. Management. The pax carrier CEOs come in and see how much they can take in 5 yrs. The management at FedEx appears to look long term, and stays with the company for decades.
Maybe some of this helps, maybe it's just the ramblings of an idiot, but I have slept peacefully the last 5 years, something I wasn't able to do from 2001-2005......
01-19-2011, 02:13 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 111
I was 40 yrs old after 8 yrs with UAL
01-19-2011, 05:17 PM
#57
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: B747-400
Posts: 14
Can't get much closer to home than decrabbitz's post. Good information!
decrabbitz, since you are probably contemplating this already, what do you think a new guy on the list has in front of them for advancement over the next ten years assuming no economic collapse? Senior FO narrowbody? Captain narrowbody? Mid seniority widebody FO? Any rolls of the dice on that question?
decrabbitz, since you are probably contemplating this already, what do you think a new guy on the list has in front of them for advancement over the next ten years assuming no economic collapse? Senior FO narrowbody? Captain narrowbody? Mid seniority widebody FO? Any rolls of the dice on that question?
01-19-2011, 08:29 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,725
but I have slept peacefully the last 5 years,
But only during the day..
01-20-2011, 01:46 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 111
My crystal ball isn't any better than the crewbus driver's, but here goes...
Newhires will initially go to the 727 panel and after that fills up, will go to 727 and 757 F/O seats as a newhire. Some will get ANC F/O within a year. Volunteers will get HKG WB F/O Day 1. Two years from now, when Age 65 retirements kick in and more 777s are on the property, you'll be able to hold WB F/O in MEM. No predictions on Capt upgrade.
Newhires will initially go to the 727 panel and after that fills up, will go to 727 and 757 F/O seats as a newhire. Some will get ANC F/O within a year. Volunteers will get HKG WB F/O Day 1. Two years from now, when Age 65 retirements kick in and more 777s are on the property, you'll be able to hold WB F/O in MEM. No predictions on Capt upgrade.
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