Tony Nelson

This one sounds llike a no brainer. I would go to FedEx in a heartbeat. The only drawback I see is the commute and unless you are in Houston for specific reasons you could always move closer to a FedEx domicile. There are a lot more unknowns at UAL at this point in time. FedEx has a contract(excellent benefits) and are making money. I don't see them giving anything up in future contracts. It could be years before UAL has something new and it may be concessionary at that?

Dr Douglas 8

Keep in mind every single keyboard jockey who tells you to bolt on UAL/CAL will also ask you what you were thinking later on with no recollection of this previous discussion if you were to, heaven forbid, get furloughed by Fedex! It happened to me with another major airline swap, not to do with Fedex, starting 12 years ago and then getting pretty interesting about 9 years ago. You have to have this discussion with your family, your close friends at each airline and really consider doing it as a no commute option if it happens.

Very strongly consider what moving to Guangzhou China or Anchorage will mean for you and your family. If you do not commute and you are OK with that, it could be a very sweet deal and an adventure you and your family will have together.

If you plan to commute, you will have to wonder why you put yourself in such a crazy commuting situation for at least three round trip commutes each month. Don't worry about what the keyboard jockeys think. Because they always have an opinion on everything, you know that already though, didn't you

Don't take anything for granted these days. UPS and FEDex are in a global battle today, for future growth and sustenance of the business model. Air China has just launched their low cost cargo operation. Cathay Pacific has cleaned up on the Asian Market for cargo for the last 15 years and are poised to expand again. All the growth is in Asia. The Indian carriers and Southwest Asian carriers (we call it the Middle East) are adding widebody freighters like they are stocking suffers at Christmas. Fedex and UPS are solid companies but as they are North American entities, they don't own the new business like they did 25 years ago when all the growth was in North America and Japan.

I am especially bullish on those who are mobile and flexible, and especially those who think globally. But then again, I am just typing on a keyboard, right?

rk772

Thanks for the perspective. That's some good advise. When I think of FedEx, I think of a cargo powerhouse and never really took into account foreign carriers.

Dr Douglas 8

I don't want anyone to get me wrong, I'm totally pro cargo. Fedex and UPS are clearly model cargo carriers that anyone would be fortunate to be associated with. What clouds the picture for us (for those looking for an easily predictable career track to follow), are the emerging global markets where the traditional "US based" piloting job market has been diluted a little. A vast majority of that "forecast growth" is not on our soil and it has been happily gobbled up by foreign or multi-national companies with pilots based abroad or domestically but paid from a foreign source. Of course, these jobs were never US pilot jobs in the first place, so we didn't lose the jobs. But a lot of the growth and career stability that goes along with growth is offshore and it's debatable how much US companies are going to get of this "future growth". There is competition already on the game board and the horizon looks to be more complex yet again with more of the same.

So while it is easy to say in one sentence that it's a given that "Brand X" is a great place to work, it's becoming more risky and complex to know what the future holds for who, and where on the seniority list it takes for one to be above the water line of "good quality of life".

I can really identify with your question and your motives. I wish you good luck in trying to make an informed choice on whatever you decide to do. Your family needs and desires will show the way. You might be really suprised how your wife (if you are married) might be really up for something, like Fedex has to offer, with an offshore base that a new guy will likely get by the time he or she upgrades to a window seat. If that's the case then by all means you might want to put this on the very top of your "to do" list But if you are looking for a more traditional pilot job where you live in your home town and fly jets from point A to B on a 3 or 4 day trip, UAL/CAL may be in fact your dream job you didn't know you already had, once the juniority and transitional warts erode over time - as a lot of this might turn out to be less common elsewhere, more so in the future. It also sucks always being the FNG! That's one other thing to consider.

SKMarz

Dr. Douglas makes some very valid points. What looks rock solid one moment, can turn to dust the next. UAL was a very different company when I was hired there 11 years ago. The company that exists today bears very little resemblance to the UAL of 99'. At that time, few of us could have imagined what was in store.

In 2007, I interviewed at UPS because I wanted to work for a company that didn't have a history of furloughing its employees, was growing and offered some stability. It didn't hurt that I flew cargo when I was furloughed the first time and found the lifestyle suited me just fine, so I knew what to expect in terms of the type of flying. At the time, I lacked the wide body flying international experience that most people had who received a class date, so I wound up in the pool in September 2007. My family and I were thrilled I was in the pool but we were very disappointed when I didn't have a class date before age 65 passed and the door closed. Fast forward 3.5 years later and I realize that if I had gotten a class date at that time, I would now be furloughed and living in Anchorage. That's the reality for 109 UPS pilots and their families. The very same pilots I was envious of in 2007 now have my utmost sympathy.

United could certainly make a great comeback. What presents the greatest obstacle to that turnaround is that the merger hasn't led to any change in management style. Unless that happens, I think UAL is going to remain a pretty toxic, contentious place to work. There are so many great people who work there, unfortunately, none of them are at the top. On the other hand, you mentioned you are now about 400 from the bottom at CAL, I really believe that you can add another 1437 to that number once the seniority list is integrated, so that would keep you out of the bottom 10% and believe me that is a percentage group you don't want to be in and that certainly is a consideration when you decide whether to start someplace new.

Personally if I was lucky enough to have FedEx call, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up the phone. Starting again has its risks but all of life is a crapshoot. It reminds me a little of Raiders of the Lost Ark when the knight is guarding the Holy Grail and there are hundreds of cups in his cave. The bad guy pick the most sparkling cup in the lot, drinks from it and turns to ash. The Knight dryly observes that he chose 'unwisely'. Indiana Jones uses all of the information he knows to choose the cup he thinks fit the bill, and selects a simple plain cup. He drinks from it and the knight tells him he chose 'wisely'.

There are countless what ifs that can come down the pike...what if 9/11 hadn't happened? what if the retirement age hadn't increased to 65?, and there will surely be more what ifs to come, we just don't what they are right now. I guess the point is, that all you can do is take all the information at hand, pick the job you think is the best fit for you and your family and then hope you have chosen 'wisely.'

In any event, I'm sure your sponsor will appreciate your efforts to try and figure out what's best for you in advance. Good luck with the decision.

Jetjok

First of all, no FedEx pilot is made to serve in a foreign base. They get to bid there if they so desire. Some guys want to take the family on an adventure of a lifetime, while others bid for seniority and (believe it or not) commute home. Our system form allows for a lot of latitude when it comes to where one lives vs. where one is based. In fact, we have a pilot who lives in Mumbai, India and is domiciled in Memphis. I guess he doesn't mind slumming when he goes to work.

As well, with respect to foreign airlines taking freight from FedEx, I'm sure it will happen to some small degree. I say small degree because it takes more than aircraft and pilots to compete successfully with either FedEx or UPS. It takes a gigantic financial commitment and years of development to create a company that can pick up a package in one part of the world, then transport and deliver it on the other side of the world, overnight (or close to overnight.) What country or company do you see doing that in the foreseeable future?

You still have to make up your own mind, and it's a tough decision, but I'd certainly consider the benefits of going with a world-leading company, one whose developed, and can capitalize on their extensive infrastructure, in the years to come. Good luck with your decision.

JJ

SaltyDog

DD8,
Many good points, but think many did cover the practical elements of the commute and a job switch. However, who is to say in ten years IAH won't be downsized, etc. and the OP is forced to commute anyway. How many times has CAL/UAL furloughed in the last 20 years? Many. How many Fedex? Zero.

The what if's can go on into perpetuity. Thus, like me, many posted it was really up to what was good for their situation and family. The backdrop for all that is relevant is financial health.

Though a strong indicator, UPS furloughs while making 3.8 Billion dollars a year. FedEX is an airline though and UPS isn't. UPS forever shot themselves and though can in good conscience recommend Purple, would no longer in good conscience recommend my employer at Brown. So even financial health could be off the table now????

Everyone knows whose decision it is, the OP even iterated they are grown up, so all us yahoos can chime in, afterall, that is what these boards provide. Free opinions.
Welcome aboard, loved flying the 8 for 13 years.

UAL T38 Phlyer

When I was a new-hire at UAL (early 99), I was on the panel of the 727.

The crusty old Captain asked me "You military?"
"Yes sir."

"What branch? I was Navy."
Me: "I'm Air Force."

"Hmmpf. Your squadron buds....what are their top 4 airlines?"
Me: "Well, depending on the guy, usually United, Delta, Continental, or Northwest, not necessarily in that order."

"That's about what I figured. You know what they were when I was in your shoes?"
"No." (I lied; I had a hunch).

"Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, and National."

His point was well-taken: today's unstoppable airline of choice is tomorrow's footnote in history.

At my United interview, late 1998, there were 4 of us: me, a civilian RJ captain, a UPS guy, and a Fedex guy.

Neither cargo guy made it to the sim eval. I wonder if they consider themselves lucky now....

Elvis90

Wow, that is a prime example of this industry. It's very much like a roll of the dice.

JetJocF14

If your plan is to stay in Houston and commute to Memphis for Fedex, than the commute is really very easy. Each night and morning we have a wide body jet that leaves from IAH to MEM. You also have a major hub of CAL to use for your D/H to other cities. I left Eastern back in 1989 to go to Flying Tigers knowing that Fedex bought Tigers. I still commute from ATL. I thought that I had made a mistake when United got that really big wopper of a contract. In reality I was just tired of chasing airlines. Fedex for me has been a great ride for the past 20 years. I hope it will be for you too. Come on over the water is just fine....