787's serious problems ... Boeing's in a hole
12-25-2010, 07:30 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Bombardier also recently left Rolls for GE for its new Global 7000/8000 aircraft.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...0Global%20Deal
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...0Global%20Deal
12-26-2010, 04:53 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Not on this message board.
Posts: 159
Bombardier also recently left Rolls for GE for its new Global 7000/8000 aircraft.
GE Offers Details On Bombardier Global Deal | AVIATION WEEK
GE Offers Details On Bombardier Global Deal | AVIATION WEEK
Ok, and British Airways left GE for RR on their 777s... your point?
Also, Bombardier is *****ed* that RR gave exlusivity on the new BR engine that is going on the G650... soooo.... their only way to "get back at them" is to use their right as a consumer and shop elsewhere.
so I am still trying to figure out your point?
12-26-2010, 05:22 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Not on this message board.
Posts: 159
Do you like bring up Rolls Royce engines when talking to women?
I have no idea who makes the engines for said airplanes, I think Satch was thinking of the heavy metal and fighters and well, probably the C130 too.
Because you wrote it in a "it's just the greatest thing EVER" fashion let's play this game:
F-35... PW. Where is the RR engine there? OH YEAH, I forgot, the "alternate engine" is the GE/RR one. The one the DOD said they don't want. The one Obama said he'd veto. The one congress is making them do $$ anyways. Did that get approved?
Next
AV8-Harrier. RR for sure, we knew that. British aircraft really, British engine. Makes sense given what went into the development of that aircraft and it's critical engine.
V22 Osprey... AE1107C. As in Allison. As in not a RR design. RR owns them as of 1995. Kind of like Boeing owns the 717 but it's really a DC-9. More on this in a moment.
C-130... Allison T56, or the AE2100 on the 130J. As in Allison. More in a second.
T-45... RR/Turbomeca. So yes, I guess you can count that as a RR engine, sort of. Kind of like the V2500?
Now back to the point of Bar's original post, the 787 has major problems and one of them is engine related. An engine blew up on the test stand and it should not have. It was a production engine. A A380 had a spectacular failure in flight and grounded the entire A380 fleet and Qantas is after RR financially for that.
My point was after having talked briefly with an engineer who specialized in engine compressors he said he was absolutely not surprised by the A380's failure as RR builds their engines different and it was in his opinion not for the better. His explanation was too fast and furious for me to memorize and write down but the engine oil issue was a part of it. His assertion was it was a design flaw in the Trent engines. If I ever can find an article on the web that has a similar argument I'll post it... if I ever look for one.
BUT, big BUTT, engines fail. Every one of them fails, PW, GE and RR although some believe the RR engines we're designed by the Angel Gabriel or something.
RR is having issues, go to news.google.com and put in Rolls Royce jet engine. To deny that is occurring is a little odd. It's like denying the L1011's demise was due greatly to RR's failure and receivership.
I have no idea who makes the engines for said airplanes, I think Satch was thinking of the heavy metal and fighters and well, probably the C130 too.
Because you wrote it in a "it's just the greatest thing EVER" fashion let's play this game:
F-35... PW. Where is the RR engine there? OH YEAH, I forgot, the "alternate engine" is the GE/RR one. The one the DOD said they don't want. The one Obama said he'd veto. The one congress is making them do $$ anyways. Did that get approved?
Next
AV8-Harrier. RR for sure, we knew that. British aircraft really, British engine. Makes sense given what went into the development of that aircraft and it's critical engine.
V22 Osprey... AE1107C. As in Allison. As in not a RR design. RR owns them as of 1995. Kind of like Boeing owns the 717 but it's really a DC-9. More on this in a moment.
C-130... Allison T56, or the AE2100 on the 130J. As in Allison. More in a second.
T-45... RR/Turbomeca. So yes, I guess you can count that as a RR engine, sort of. Kind of like the V2500?
Now back to the point of Bar's original post, the 787 has major problems and one of them is engine related. An engine blew up on the test stand and it should not have. It was a production engine. A A380 had a spectacular failure in flight and grounded the entire A380 fleet and Qantas is after RR financially for that.
My point was after having talked briefly with an engineer who specialized in engine compressors he said he was absolutely not surprised by the A380's failure as RR builds their engines different and it was in his opinion not for the better. His explanation was too fast and furious for me to memorize and write down but the engine oil issue was a part of it. His assertion was it was a design flaw in the Trent engines. If I ever can find an article on the web that has a similar argument I'll post it... if I ever look for one.
BUT, big BUTT, engines fail. Every one of them fails, PW, GE and RR although some believe the RR engines we're designed by the Angel Gabriel or something.
RR is having issues, go to news.google.com and put in Rolls Royce jet engine. To deny that is occurring is a little odd. It's like denying the L1011's demise was due greatly to RR's failure and receivership.
Incorrect on so many levels.
First, the F-35 has a RR lift fan... that is installed as we speak, and no one else designed it. PW wanted it, but the RR design was just plain better.
Second, to call the AE brand engine "not RR" is like saying any northwest A320, DC9, 747, 753, A330, etc is not a "real Delta flight"... they were bought, it is now branded... GET OVER IT-- IT IS A RR ENGINE NOW.
Third, Qantas grounded their A380s, that's it. No one else did.
Fourth, you say the RB engine was the demise of the L1011-- Lockheed was in trouble after the Electra deal, and was reluctant to enter back into commercial aviation. Ask any pilot who actually flew one, and they will tell you it was one of the greatest. Yes, RR went through a dark period with that engine, but emerged as one of the greats. The RB on the 757 is lighter, quieter, more powerful, and more efficient than its PW counterpart... sooooooo...
Since you say others are playing the ""it's just the greatest thing EVER"" game, maybe next time get your facts straight before posting them for the world to see and looking like the guy driving down the highway with his blinker on continuously. Also, don't berate people for knowing what engine goes on which aircraft... for some of us, this is a passion, and just like knowing the 0-60 time of a BMW M5, we also know the engine and thrust rating of our favorite aircraft. I emplore you to think about this before posting again.
Oh, and I do bring up RR/PW/GE engines when talking with women...
12-26-2010, 05:35 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Not really sure what your point is. Rolls was very ****ed when BBA selected GE as the motor for the new Globals during NBAA (I know as I was there and have a few friends who works for Rolls). It was a bit of a shock to them as they were the incumbent an assumed they would win the competition. RR will lose a bit more market share in the future to Pratt and GE.
12-26-2010, 06:08 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Good Read
Fourth, you say the RB engine was the demise of the L1011-- Lockheed was in trouble after the Electra deal, and was reluctant to enter back into commercial aviation. Ask any pilot who actually flew one, and they will tell you it was one of the greatest. Yes, RR went through a dark period with that engine, but emerged as one of the greats.
12-26-2010, 07:51 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
I just want you to know that my jet engine is bigger than your jet engine. Exactly what are we arguing about here? By the way, best motor I ever saw was the J-79 in the F-4. Power on demand and would take abuse all day long. Ahhh, the good old days.
12-26-2010, 09:34 AM
#67
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Have you ever tried reading before? Researching? Looking at previous posts?
F-35 JSF. 3 variants. One STOVL. The one with the STOVL has a RR Liftsystem... but the engine is, PW. The engine on the two non-STOVL versions? PW. PW won the contract.
As to the GE/RR engine, Congress has kept it alive despite the objections of the DOD as a jobs program. The end result is now thanks to that move and reallocating funds for the program to build the unwanted GE/RR engine there will be fewer F35s and the cost of each has increased.
Viewpoint: Extra F-35 Engine Makes No Sense | AVIATION WEEK
Sophomoric answer at best.
We're talking about the design of the engine as being the issue for the 787 and 380. Do you think Boeing designed the Boeing 717? The entire MD fleet is on the Boeing website including the MD-11. Do you consider it a Boeing airplane?
And thus the rest of the A380 fleet doesn't have any problems with those engines right? It won't be necessary to replace those engines, right?
Airbus to swap A380s engines to keep to schedule - BusinessWeek
The engine was the demise of the aircraft. There may have been other factors but in a race with the DC-10, the L1011 came in second. Check the sales numbers. L1011 was delayed due to engine troubles and a higher weight version to compete with a higher weight DC-10 came too late.
Now mind you, why go back 40 years? Go back and read the post and you'll get it. I'm not going to make it easier on you. Go back and read it.
Okay, see above and compare posts. I feel very comfortable with mine, you still feel good about yours? 
And some of us actually fly the things. Do I ever care about the engines on any airplane I flew? The only thing I'd say is I liked starting the GE engines on the 767-300ER better than the PW engines. The GE engines came up real fast which was nice. After that, I didn't care. L1011 guys talk about the cantankerous engine starts on it, but never complain about it once it was running. I like FADEC engines, I don't care who makes them, I just like FADEC better. But once engines are running and as long as everything was in limits what kind of line pilot honestly cares??
Oh, that kind of pilot. ^^^ I figure you're kidding, but what if you're not? I knew a guy that went to Embry Riddle who said he and his buddy met some girls on the beach and he was doing most of the talking and things were going well so off he went for some beer and he came back to find his buddy telling them how the new wings on the 737 next gen's were superior to the classics and long over due and blah blah blah. He was so so mad.
---
Back to the 787...
Could engine patent scrutiny slow Boeing 787? | Puget Sound Business Journal
Bar, if you're still on, chances of Delta ever moving from a "technically yes [we still are a buyer but not before 2020]" seeing the 787?
As to the GE/RR engine, Congress has kept it alive despite the objections of the DOD as a jobs program. The end result is now thanks to that move and reallocating funds for the program to build the unwanted GE/RR engine there will be fewer F35s and the cost of each has increased.
Viewpoint: Extra F-35 Engine Makes No Sense | AVIATION WEEK
We're talking about the design of the engine as being the issue for the 787 and 380. Do you think Boeing designed the Boeing 717? The entire MD fleet is on the Boeing website including the MD-11. Do you consider it a Boeing airplane?
And thus the rest of the A380 fleet doesn't have any problems with those engines right? It won't be necessary to replace those engines, right?
Airbus to swap A380s engines to keep to schedule - BusinessWeek
Fourth, you say the RB engine was the demise of the L1011-- Lockheed was in trouble after the Electra deal, and was reluctant to enter back into commercial aviation. Ask any pilot who actually flew one, and they will tell you it was one of the greatest. Yes, RR went through a dark period with that engine, but emerged as one of the greats. The RB on the 757 is lighter, quieter, more powerful, and more efficient than its PW counterpart... sooooooo...
Now mind you, why go back 40 years? Go back and read the post and you'll get it. I'm not going to make it easier on you. Go back and read it.
Since you say others are playing the ""it's just the greatest thing EVER"" game, maybe next time get your facts straight before posting them for the world to see and looking like the guy driving down the highway with his blinker on continuously... I emplore you to think about this before posting again.
Also, don't berate people for knowing what engine goes on which aircraft... for some of us, this is a passion, and just like knowing the 0-60 time of a BMW M5, we also know the engine and thrust rating of our favorite aircraft. I emplore you to think about this before posting again.
Oh, that kind of pilot. ^^^ I figure you're kidding, but what if you're not? I knew a guy that went to Embry Riddle who said he and his buddy met some girls on the beach and he was doing most of the talking and things were going well so off he went for some beer and he came back to find his buddy telling them how the new wings on the 737 next gen's were superior to the classics and long over due and blah blah blah. He was so so mad.
---
Back to the 787...
Could engine patent scrutiny slow Boeing 787? | Puget Sound Business Journal
Bar, if you're still on, chances of Delta ever moving from a "technically yes [we still are a buyer but not before 2020]" seeing the 787?
Last edited by forgot to bid; 12-26-2010 at 09:48 AM.
12-26-2010, 09:36 AM
#68
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Question, Bears, Beets, Battlestar Gallactica... and is the 787 going to become the new L1011? And why is it that Rolls Royce keeps winning engine contracts when they have compressor design philosophy that continues to create problems.
Now the irony, the L1011 had RR engines as does the A380 and 787.
Now the irony, the L1011 had RR engines as does the A380 and 787.
I honestly wish the morons in charge of the 787 wouldn't be ruining the reputation of the Boeing brand. I also wish the 787 and 380 engines weren't exploding or at the least the fixes fix the engines for good. None of this does anybody any good especially if it means the 737 remains Boeings only nb offering. And I wish the A380 wasnt so ugly, I think the 320 and 330 look good, 380, not so much. Oh well.
Guess we'd been better off if we had just kept this company from being bought:
Last edited by forgot to bid; 12-26-2010 at 10:04 AM.
12-26-2010, 11:56 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Do you like bring up Rolls Royce engines when talking to women?
I have no idea who makes the engines for said airplanes, I think Satch was thinking of the heavy metal and fighters and well, probably the C130 too.
Because you wrote it in a "it's just the greatest thing EVER" fashion let's play this game:
F-35... PW. Where is the RR engine there? OH YEAH, I forgot, the "alternate engine" is the GE/RR one. The one the DOD said they don't want. The one Obama said he'd veto. The one congress is making them do $$ anyways. Did that get approved?
Next
AV8-Harrier. RR for sure, we knew that. British aircraft really, British engine. Makes sense given what went into the development of that aircraft and it's critical engine.
V22 Osprey... AE1107C. As in Allison. As in not a RR design. RR owns them as of 1995. Kind of like Boeing owns the 717 but it's really a DC-9. More on this in a moment.
C-130... Allison T56, or the AE2100 on the 130J. As in Allison. More in a second.
T-45... RR/Turbomeca. So yes, I guess you can count that as a RR engine, sort of. Kind of like the V2500?
Now back to the point of Bar's original post, the 787 has major problems and one of them is engine related. An engine blew up on the test stand and it should not have. It was a production engine. A A380 had a spectacular failure in flight and grounded the entire A380 fleet and Qantas is after RR financially for that.
My point was after having talked briefly with an engineer who specialized in engine compressors he said he was absolutely not surprised by the A380's failure as RR builds their engines different and it was in his opinion not for the better. His explanation was too fast and furious for me to memorize and write down but the engine oil issue was a part of it. His assertion was it was a design flaw in the Trent engines. If I ever can find an article on the web that has a similar argument I'll post it... if I ever look for one.
BUT, big BUTT, engines fail. Every one of them fails, PW, GE and RR although some believe the RR engines we're designed by the Angel Gabriel or something.
RR is having issues, go to news.google.com and put in Rolls Royce jet engine. To deny that is occurring is a little odd. It's like denying the L1011's demise was due greatly to RR's failure and receivership.
I have no idea who makes the engines for said airplanes, I think Satch was thinking of the heavy metal and fighters and well, probably the C130 too.
Because you wrote it in a "it's just the greatest thing EVER" fashion let's play this game:
F-35... PW. Where is the RR engine there? OH YEAH, I forgot, the "alternate engine" is the GE/RR one. The one the DOD said they don't want. The one Obama said he'd veto. The one congress is making them do $$ anyways. Did that get approved?
Next
AV8-Harrier. RR for sure, we knew that. British aircraft really, British engine. Makes sense given what went into the development of that aircraft and it's critical engine.
V22 Osprey... AE1107C. As in Allison. As in not a RR design. RR owns them as of 1995. Kind of like Boeing owns the 717 but it's really a DC-9. More on this in a moment.
C-130... Allison T56, or the AE2100 on the 130J. As in Allison. More in a second.
T-45... RR/Turbomeca. So yes, I guess you can count that as a RR engine, sort of. Kind of like the V2500?
Now back to the point of Bar's original post, the 787 has major problems and one of them is engine related. An engine blew up on the test stand and it should not have. It was a production engine. A A380 had a spectacular failure in flight and grounded the entire A380 fleet and Qantas is after RR financially for that.
My point was after having talked briefly with an engineer who specialized in engine compressors he said he was absolutely not surprised by the A380's failure as RR builds their engines different and it was in his opinion not for the better. His explanation was too fast and furious for me to memorize and write down but the engine oil issue was a part of it. His assertion was it was a design flaw in the Trent engines. If I ever can find an article on the web that has a similar argument I'll post it... if I ever look for one.
BUT, big BUTT, engines fail. Every one of them fails, PW, GE and RR although some believe the RR engines we're designed by the Angel Gabriel or something.
RR is having issues, go to news.google.com and put in Rolls Royce jet engine. To deny that is occurring is a little odd. It's like denying the L1011's demise was due greatly to RR's failure and receivership.
Stop thinking so much. You're getting wrapped around the axle with this.
I simply stated I was a fan of RR and GE and that both were world class engine builders. That's a fact.
Part of RR's issues in recent years (and they have been few) are a result of the firm's massive growth in size and portfolio.
Is there an engineering firm that hasn't had problems in the past? Not on this planet!
Also, give Boeing a chance. They may just surprize you!
T
12-26-2010, 12:54 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Not on this message board.
Posts: 159
[QUOTE=forgot to bid;921391]Have you ever tried reading before? Researching? Looking at previous posts?
F-35 JSF. 3 variants. One STOVL. The one with the STOVL has a RR Liftsystem... but the engine is, PW. The engine on the two non-STOVL versions? PW. PW won the contract.
As to the GE/RR engine, Congress has kept it alive despite the objections of the DOD as a jobs program. The end result is now thanks to that move and reallocating funds for the program to build the unwanted GE/RR engine there will be fewer F35s and the cost of each has increased.
Viewpoint: Extra F-35 Engine Makes No Sense | AVIATION WEEK
Sophomoric answer at best.
And thus the rest of the A380 fleet doesn't have any problems with those engines right? It won't be necessary to replace those engines, right?
Oh, that kind of pilot. ^^^ I figure you're kidding, but what if you're not? I knew a guy that went to Embry Riddle who said he and his buddy met some girls on the beach and he was doing most of the talking and things were going well so off he went for some beer and he came back to find his buddy telling them how the new wings on the 737 next gen's were superior to the classics and long over due and blah blah blah. He was so so mad.
QUOTE]
Your buddy went to riddle? there was problem number 1.
Here is another "sophomoric" answer to your sophomoric jab... (btw, I love it when someone says something that one disagrees with and they immediately go to insults... so educated and inspiring).
I am not going to get into a ****ing contest over semantics... but you clearly have changed your tune from your first post to your most recent--saying that all A380s were grounded.. and thatthe F35 had nothing to do with RR..
You have over 5,000 posts on here, which to me is a good thing-- here is another pilot that cares enough about his/her profession to stay up to speed on things outside of work... so you are really going to tell me you don't keep up with what engines go on which aircraft??
So you prefer the GE's on your ER fleet to the PW on the 767 at DAL? I agree with you... but have you ever flown on a 763ER with RR's (a la BA)? Just as powerful, and more efficient... Im just sayin!! Im just sayin!!!
-spike
F-35 JSF. 3 variants. One STOVL. The one with the STOVL has a RR Liftsystem... but the engine is, PW. The engine on the two non-STOVL versions? PW. PW won the contract.
As to the GE/RR engine, Congress has kept it alive despite the objections of the DOD as a jobs program. The end result is now thanks to that move and reallocating funds for the program to build the unwanted GE/RR engine there will be fewer F35s and the cost of each has increased.
Viewpoint: Extra F-35 Engine Makes No Sense | AVIATION WEEK
Sophomoric answer at best.
And thus the rest of the A380 fleet doesn't have any problems with those engines right? It won't be necessary to replace those engines, right?
Oh, that kind of pilot. ^^^ I figure you're kidding, but what if you're not? I knew a guy that went to Embry Riddle who said he and his buddy met some girls on the beach and he was doing most of the talking and things were going well so off he went for some beer and he came back to find his buddy telling them how the new wings on the 737 next gen's were superior to the classics and long over due and blah blah blah. He was so so mad.
QUOTE]
Your buddy went to riddle? there was problem number 1.
Here is another "sophomoric" answer to your sophomoric jab... (btw, I love it when someone says something that one disagrees with and they immediately go to insults... so educated and inspiring).
I am not going to get into a ****ing contest over semantics... but you clearly have changed your tune from your first post to your most recent--saying that all A380s were grounded.. and thatthe F35 had nothing to do with RR..
You have over 5,000 posts on here, which to me is a good thing-- here is another pilot that cares enough about his/her profession to stay up to speed on things outside of work... so you are really going to tell me you don't keep up with what engines go on which aircraft??
So you prefer the GE's on your ER fleet to the PW on the 767 at DAL? I agree with you... but have you ever flown on a 763ER with RR's (a la BA)? Just as powerful, and more efficient... Im just sayin!! Im just sayin!!!
-spike
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
