The AirTran Pilots' Windfall and SLI
01-19-2011, 10:40 AM
#431
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
That was part of ALPA merger policy. The panel consisted of an arbitrator and two pilot nuetrals. The pilot nuetrals had no vote on the ultimate list. The SWA/ATN integration will be via Alleghenny-Mohawk LPPs.
01-19-2011, 11:13 AM
#432
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Not true. Pilots on this board can read for themselves, they don't need you to give them the executive summary.
On the contrary, I find most of the post on this board are by non-SWA/AT pilots who can only repeat the mantra of "RELATIVE SENIORITY".
Reminds me of the scene in Life of Brian, where the crowd chants in unison,"Yes, we must think for ourselves, we must be individuals."
Like you
And I'm sure that would make you happy. Oh wait, you do have a dog in this fight! YOUR EGO.
Look here Orville Redenbacker, you're the main one stoking up the fire. Putting words in everyone's mouth and assuming you know everyone's motivations. Let them read for themselves.
Go take your real dog for a walk, he's feeling negleted.
On the contrary, I find most of the post on this board are by non-SWA/AT pilots who can only repeat the mantra of "RELATIVE SENIORITY".
Reminds me of the scene in Life of Brian, where the crowd chants in unison,"Yes, we must think for ourselves, we must be individuals."
Like you
And I'm sure that would make you happy. Oh wait, you do have a dog in this fight! YOUR EGO.
Look here Orville Redenbacker, you're the main one stoking up the fire. Putting words in everyone's mouth and assuming you know everyone's motivations. Let them read for themselves.
Go take your real dog for a walk, he's feeling negleted.
01-19-2011, 11:48 AM
#433
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,689
Fair enough. I have to admit I am involved and find it entertaining.
The next question is, the general consensus on this board always seems to paint SWA as the "Golden Boy" of aviation that always gets preferential treatment from: FAA, DOT, ATC etc., so why now all of a sudden does everyone shout from the rooftops "Prepare for the worst"? What changed in the learned minds of all the pontificaters? If we truly are the "Golden Boy" shouldn't we automatically get whatever we want? Isn't that how this works? I fully expected all of you all to say "AirTran is so screwed, SWA will once again get preferential treatment".
The last question is, why does the Chautauqua arbitration with Shuttle America not factor into this at all? Is it just me, or does it not have similarities to this SLI? That is the real question to you all, why should it be discounted and not have relevance when everyone keeps stating what has happened in past SLI's will happen again in this one. That is the question I would really like someone to answer.
The next question is, the general consensus on this board always seems to paint SWA as the "Golden Boy" of aviation that always gets preferential treatment from: FAA, DOT, ATC etc., so why now all of a sudden does everyone shout from the rooftops "Prepare for the worst"? What changed in the learned minds of all the pontificaters? If we truly are the "Golden Boy" shouldn't we automatically get whatever we want? Isn't that how this works? I fully expected all of you all to say "AirTran is so screwed, SWA will once again get preferential treatment".
The last question is, why does the Chautauqua arbitration with Shuttle America not factor into this at all? Is it just me, or does it not have similarities to this SLI? That is the real question to you all, why should it be discounted and not have relevance when everyone keeps stating what has happened in past SLI's will happen again in this one. That is the question I would really like someone to answer.
Each side will get a chance to present all the facts as they see them and feel they are relevant. The arbitrator will decide how to weight those facts and produce a list. SWA airlines will without a doubt be able to make a case they were the preferred place for a pilot to work. Airtran on the other hand will have the advantage of a very experienced merger and legal team that has been through this type of thing before and has a working relationship with the arbitrators and NMB.
The list will be produced and then everyone can complain on both sides!
01-19-2011, 12:21 PM
#435
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
01-19-2011, 12:31 PM
#436
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 89
I know how you guys are saying SWA and AAI are the same, same plane, yadda yadda, that's all that matters, 737 captain, I mean if we were merging with Casino express airlines, or whatever they are called now, they would get relative too since they have 737s. I guess the fact that AAI has only 1700 pilots and SWA has 5900+ won't matter either in the SLI? Fire away smart guys/arbitrators.
01-19-2011, 12:37 PM
#437
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
The answer to your question is simple. The law regarding airlines mergers has changed because of the AMR-TWA merger. The list will go to arbitration. Before this law change SWA could have dictated a merger policy. They can no longer do that.
Each side will get a chance to present all the facts as they see them and feel they are relevant. The arbitrator will decide how to weight those facts and produce a list. SWA airlines will without a doubt be able to make a case they were the preferred place for a pilot to work. Airtran on the other hand will have the advantage of a very experienced merger and legal team that has been through this type of thing before and has a working relationship with the arbitrators and NMB.
The list will be produced and then everyone can complain on both sides!
Each side will get a chance to present all the facts as they see them and feel they are relevant. The arbitrator will decide how to weight those facts and produce a list. SWA airlines will without a doubt be able to make a case they were the preferred place for a pilot to work. Airtran on the other hand will have the advantage of a very experienced merger and legal team that has been through this type of thing before and has a working relationship with the arbitrators and NMB.
The list will be produced and then everyone can complain on both sides!
To expound on what you touched on per "post" AA-TWA, it's specifically refered to as "McCaskill-Bond Amendment". http://afaonevoice.org/images/McCaskill%20Amendment%20explanation%20FINAL%20for% 20WEB.pdf
"Hate it, or like it"....the above Amendment is the specific bi-product of the AA-TWA Merger. This also is something that was NOT around during SWA's previous rides on the "Merger-Train" (a'la Morris-93, Muse-85, ATA-08...the 3rd/last not relevant b/c Pilot SLI was not an issue with ATA). With the subject of the arbitrator being 'fair' addressed earlier in this thread, I'd go out on a limb with 99.9% certainty that THIS will be weighed (how much 'weight'-TBD) into this SLI Arbitration.....ASSuming it comes to that.....but then again, who are we kidding.
For those who "cling-on" to "W-2" considerations to be factored, if you take time to read McCaskill-Bond's section on "Career Expectations", there's nothing mentioned involving the subject of "W-2 & the Benjamin's".....food for thought.
01-19-2011, 12:37 PM
#438
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I know how you guys are saying SWA and AAI are the same, same plane, yadda yadda, that's all that matters, 737 captain, I mean if we were merging with Casino express airlines, or whatever they are called now, they would get relative too since they have 737s. I guess the fact that AAI has only 1700 pilots and SWA has 5900+ won't matter either in the SLI? Fire away smart guys/arbitrators.
01-19-2011, 12:42 PM
#439
gets time off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,249
Not that I believe in the W2 garbage, but it also does not disallow it. Chew on that. Let the NC's hash it out. Lets just fly our planes.
01-19-2011, 12:48 PM
#440
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
Posts: 978
I know how you guys are saying SWA and AAI are the same, same plane, yadda yadda, that's all that matters, 737 captain, I mean if we were merging with Casino express airlines, or whatever they are called now, they would get relative too since they have 737s. I guess the fact that AAI has only 1700 pilots and SWA has 5900+ won't matter either in the SLI? Fire away smart guys/arbitrators.
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