Fishfreighter

Perhaps its better that those of us who don't have a dog in the fight present some opinions on the topic. We have the ability to take an independent position (not unlike an arbitrator) that is uncolored by personal greed.

Some of the posters on this thread are so obviously concerned about how this will affect THEIR upgrade that their logic is somewhat skewed on the topic.

Most of us can recognize who those posters are, even if they can't.

Cogf16

Age of a pilot group has not been a serious factor in SLI talks. Not saying that it can't affect expectations but they look at current snapshots of pilot groups with little consideration for all the intervening years. Look no further than the DAL list. A small modification was done to account for the older "North" group but it was minor and, also, the first time anything like it was used in constructing a list.

newKnow

Not true. With notice, an arbitrators can ask other airline's pilots what they think should happen. In fact, this might be SWA's pilots best option to explain their perceived disparity in the "status" of the carriers and career expectations.

If I remember correctly, a SLI within the last 10 years used pilots from other airlines to assist in the arbitration. (US Air/America West???)


Dude, SLI discussions are like watching bullfights. Forget about the bull and the fighter, watch the crowd. The fight brings out the worst in us and it's entertaining. The nicest person can become the biggest azsh*le when you threaten to move him down one number.

shoelu

Fair enough. I have to admit I am involved and find it entertaining.

The next question is, the general consensus on this board always seems to paint SWA as the "Golden Boy" of aviation that always gets preferential treatment from: FAA, DOT, ATC etc., so why now all of a sudden does everyone shout from the rooftops "Prepare for the worst"? What changed in the learned minds of all the pontificaters? If we truly are the "Golden Boy" shouldn't we automatically get whatever we want? Isn't that how this works? I fully expected all of you all to say "AirTran is so screwed, SWA will once again get preferential treatment".

The last question is, why does the Chautauqua arbitration with Shuttle America not factor into this at all? Is it just me, or does it not have similarities to this SLI? That is the real question to you all, why should it be discounted and not have relevance when everyone keeps stating what has happened in past SLI's will happen again in this one. That is the question I would really like someone to answer.

BoilerUP

Shuttle America was flying a handful of old Saabs on expiring contracts and in rough shape financially while CHQ was flying 37 thru 72 seat jets and growing like wildfire.

AirTran flies the same size aircraft Southwest does (many of the exact same type) to many of the same destinations, and AirTran has been more profitable and grown faster than SWA in the last few years.

DAL/NWA is much more appropriate a comparison than S5/CHQ.

tsquare

I don't think anybody is telling you that SWA should prepare for the worst.. What I read here are a couple of SWA FOs that think much less than a staple is totally unacceptable. Most of the posters that have no dog in the fight are trying to understand that train of thought. What we all see are basically two identical airlines that are merging. What we see are two FOs that have a very obvious "I have mine, so pull up the ladder" mentality wrt the AT guys. I think they are going to be very disapointed with the arbitrators ruling, and probably very bitter for absolutely no reason. The best they are ever going to do post merger is exactly the same as it is pre merger... 737 captain.

I'll hang up, grab some more popcorn, and listen.

RCD73

Shuttle America was bankrupt. They filed CH 11 and were subsequently bought by Wexford Capital. The owner of Chautauqua.

Shuttle America pilots career expectations without the purchase out of Ch11 involved an unemployment check.

The 30 seat turboprop vs 70 seat Jet mentioned above is also a consideration.

shoelu

Thanks, I knew they were financially troubled but not that they were in Chapter 11.

1Seat 1Engine

You seem to think that the only things that go into an SLI integration are size of aircraft and relative seniority.

Or that there is some closely followed legal precedent.

I would submit that there's many more issues that are looked at and that an arbitrator has a lot of latitude.

And while life may not be "fair", the arbitrator's goal IS to be "fair".

1Seat 1Engine

Not true. Pilots on this board can read for themselves, they don't need you to give them the executive summary.

On the contrary, I find most of the post on this board are by non-SWA/AT pilots who can only repeat the mantra of "RELATIVE SENIORITY".

Reminds me of the scene in Life of Brian, where the crowd chants in unison,"Yes, we must think for ourselves, we must be individuals."

Like you

And I'm sure that would make you happy. Oh wait, you do have a dog in this fight! YOUR EGO.

Look here Orville Redenbacker, you're the main one stoking up the fire. Putting words in everyone's mouth and assuming you know everyone's motivations. Let them read for themselves.

Go take your real dog for a walk, he's feeling negleted.