The AirTran Pilots' Windfall and SLI
01-12-2011, 11:38 AM
#291
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
01-12-2011, 12:06 PM
#292
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 22
I said all new growth on the WN side, I know that won't happen, the days of the transtar/morris purchase are just a dream. I just wish I could get a huge pay raise and still hold my current seniority like the AAI guys want. I just get to keep my seniority, my current pay, delay my upgrade even more, and fly to ATL and some other hot spots, that I could care less about flying to. While some guys who didn't have to buy a type, didn't have to wait out at a regional to get over 1000 hours pic, and didn't have to interview move ahead of me. I guess I'm just jealous. Because with out Airtran, SWA would have never been able to grow or fly out of Texas.
Relative seniority is a pipe dream. It is just what it says it is...relative. The seniority they hold at Airtran is relative to the other Airtran pilots - not at the airline that is buying theirs. The lack of growth is a poor argument as well. SWA probably would have grown just fine without this. I don't seeing anything at all positive for our group with this deal. Most of the posters here, believe it or not, would actually enjoy seeing SWA struggle through this.
01-12-2011, 12:13 PM
#293
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
cole, the posters on this site are not going to sway from downplaying the obviously huge increases in pay, qol, etc. and to stick to their foolish talking points about relative seniority.
Relative seniority is a pipe dream. It is just what it says it is...relative. The seniority they hold at Airtran is relative to the other Airtran pilots - not at the airline that is buying theirs. The lack of growth is a poor argument as well. SWA probably would have grown just fine without this. I don't seeing anything at all positive for our group with this deal. Most of the posters here, believe it or not, would actually enjoy seeing SWA struggle through this.
Relative seniority is a pipe dream. It is just what it says it is...relative. The seniority they hold at Airtran is relative to the other Airtran pilots - not at the airline that is buying theirs. The lack of growth is a poor argument as well. SWA probably would have grown just fine without this. I don't seeing anything at all positive for our group with this deal. Most of the posters here, believe it or not, would actually enjoy seeing SWA struggle through this.
Just wondering, how much has WN been growing over the past 2 years?
Just sayin....
01-12-2011, 01:27 PM
#294
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: "Prof" button manipulator
Posts: 1,685
cole, the posters on this site are not going to sway from downplaying the obviously huge increases in pay, qol, etc. and to stick to their foolish talking points about relative seniority.
Relative seniority is a pipe dream. It is just what it says it is...relative. The seniority they hold at Airtran is relative to the other Airtran pilots - not at the airline that is buying theirs. The lack of growth is a poor argument as well. SWA probably would have grown just fine without this. I don't seeing anything at all positive for our group with this deal. Most of the posters here, believe it or not, would actually enjoy seeing SWA struggle through this.
Relative seniority is a pipe dream. It is just what it says it is...relative. The seniority they hold at Airtran is relative to the other Airtran pilots - not at the airline that is buying theirs. The lack of growth is a poor argument as well. SWA probably would have grown just fine without this. I don't seeing anything at all positive for our group with this deal. Most of the posters here, believe it or not, would actually enjoy seeing SWA struggle through this.
That's some funny "shiz" right there. (Not intended in any way to demean the screen name of "SHIZNIT".)I don't post often, and although not having a care one way or the other, I have to say, "PREPARE FOR A RUDE AWAKENING AKF15DUDE", DUDE.
Fly Safe,
GJ
01-12-2011, 01:53 PM
#295
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 22
Why don't you teach me about it then - tell me about how 1 group gets all the benefits over the other and tell me how that fits the mold of 'fair and equitable'. Also, where is the relative seniority clause located...just wondering.
You are correct about the growth of SWA over the past 2 years...but -
What has the average growth of SWA been? How many pilots has SWA furloughed? How many times have SWA pilots voted to strike? Here are some questions for you.
Just sayin...
01-12-2011, 02:17 PM
#296
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
don't let all that snow scare you..
01-12-2011, 02:56 PM
#297
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Why don't you teach me about it then - tell me about how 1 group gets all the benefits over the other and tell me how that fits the mold of 'fair and equitable'. Also, where is the relative seniority clause located...just wondering.
You are correct about the growth of SWA over the past 2 years...but -
What has the average growth of SWA been? How many pilots has SWA furloughed? How many times have SWA pilots voted to strike? Here are some questions for you. Just sayin...
You are correct about the growth of SWA over the past 2 years...but -
What has the average growth of SWA been? How many pilots has SWA furloughed? How many times have SWA pilots voted to strike? Here are some questions for you.
Just sayin...AK,
You've got people "talking" to you who, two and a half years ago, were arguing both sides of the argument you are having now. We were just as sure and passionate and polarized as you are now. What should be telling to you though is that we are all saying the same thing now:
The arbitrator will discount many of the things you think are important when he or she constructs your seniority list.
That's as simple as it can be said.
01-12-2011, 03:34 PM
#298
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 22
AK,
You've got people "talking" to you who, two and a half years ago, were arguing both sides of the argument you are having now. We were just as sure and passionate and polarized as you are now. What should be telling to you though is that we are all saying the same thing now:
The arbitrator will discount many of the things you think are important when he or she constructs your seniority list.
That's as simple as it can be said.
You've got people "talking" to you who, two and a half years ago, were arguing both sides of the argument you are having now. We were just as sure and passionate and polarized as you are now. What should be telling to you though is that we are all saying the same thing now:
The arbitrator will discount many of the things you think are important when he or she constructs your seniority list.
That's as simple as it can be said.
I'll use this example again. Would relative seniority be fair if their company were only 5 years old with only a couple hundred pilots? (Nobody will answer this question.) Blending only a few pilots would not make a difference to the overall seniority of the larger group but it would be morally wrong. Same principle here, just different size and age.
I'm done watching the spinning wheels here...
01-12-2011, 03:56 PM
#299
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 127
80kts clamp - if you are going to ask AKf15 about if WN has grown in the last two years. No they have not. Has any other large airline grown in the last two years or five years? Yes this thread is about WN and AirTran, but come on, do a little research and go industry wide.
WN is about to unleash alot of growth, including Hawaii (2012) and South America. If you think I am bluffing, I am not. All sectors of the company are in ETOPS initial training right now.
WN is about to unleash alot of growth, including Hawaii (2012) and South America. If you think I am bluffing, I am not. All sectors of the company are in ETOPS initial training right now.
01-12-2011, 03:57 PM
#300
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
I understand what you are saying and don't doubt that those are the facts for your deal. That does not make it right for you and definitely doesn't make it fair in this instance. Flying the same aircraft (more or less) takes a large variable out of the total equation. There is such a huge disparity in every other aspect of the acquisition that it would be unfair to overlook them. If it were just a couple bucks difference, ok...but c'mon, have you seen the difference in pay? They could drop almost half their trips with the new pay and still make the same amount of money. How's that for QOL? The pay is only one of the many large 'upgrades' they will enjoy. The argument that pay doesn't matter is pure BS.
I'll use this example again. Would relative seniority be fair if their company were only 5 years old with only a couple hundred pilots? (Nobody will answer this question.) Blending only a few pilots would not make a difference to the overall seniority of the larger group but it would be morally wrong. Same principle here, just different size and age.
I'm done watching the spinning wheels here...
I'll use this example again. Would relative seniority be fair if their company were only 5 years old with only a couple hundred pilots? (Nobody will answer this question.) Blending only a few pilots would not make a difference to the overall seniority of the larger group but it would be morally wrong. Same principle here, just different size and age.
I'm done watching the spinning wheels here...
For the sake of argument, I'll answer your question. No. It wouldn't be fair. But, you should understand that those arbitrators are lawyers and your question doesn't matter. They would turn it around in 3 seconds and ask you if that hypothetical 5 year old airline had 100 pilots and the junior FO made $500 per hour, should he put him on the top of the #1 SWA captain?
Dude, if you are looking for fairness in a SLI discussion and award, you are going to be disappointed.
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