Thumbs882

They got to vote the 2nd time around, not the first. Granted its who you elect as a group, but trust me the Air Tran deal hits pretty close to home for me. And when we have Pro ALPA guys acting like the end all be all, they aren't going to win points. You have guys on the fence, like myself, that are just turned off. It comes down to trust and write now a lot of guys, especially on here, are showing all the negatives to ALPA and none of the positives. And I don't mean you, I actually respect the fact you are talking in grown up language.

txbusdriver

What have you done to see your in house dreams come to fruition?

P-3Bubba

Pinnacle pilots got what they got because they had zero choice. How would you vote Tex, if your choice was the street or food stamps? Delta gave Pinnacle a garbage contract because they could. Why was it garbage? Because they wanted to cut costs with their outsourcing. What did Delta ALPA think about during the Delta TA vote? Certainly not, how will this effect our brethren at Connection? So yeah, Pinnacle got a vote. I let my dog vote too. Somehow his opinion is never in the majority.

Thumbs882

What was the estimated cost per member to start in house?

P-3Bubba

I'll turn in a JPA card. Where does all of the fear come from about the start-up costs associated with an in-house? Ive heard about it, but I don't understand it. I wasn't at the company for the in-house vote last time. Was there the same hostility as pro v con ALPA? Or was there more lack of understanding or confusion about the union?

txbusdriver

I have to admit I am perplexed that anyone would base their decision to vote for or against a union on the tone of an anonymous message board. That's not a slam on you personally, I just wish everyone would put their emotion aside and study the facts.

Just as a recap:
Alaska pilots have slightly better pay and much better benefits. Their contract is amendable 4/13.

Hawaiian pilots have better pay and benefits.

Delta pilots now enjoy better pay and have had better benefits.

UA pilots now have better pay and have had better benefits.

All of the above are ALPA carriers with the ability to negotiate. JetBlue pilots have no ability to negotiate anything.

txbusdriver

I love the idea of an in house union but as demonstrated by Air Tran it's difficult to finance. Why not use ALPA's resources and if it's as bad as what you think, I'll donate the first $1000 to switch to an in house.

FedEx pilot road to unionization....
http://www.bluetruthpilots.com/uploa...%20History.pdf

From my bluetruthpilots.com

The following FedEx timeline represents how an in-house start-up struggles to obtain their objectives. AirTran also went through the same type of problems until they re-voted and obtained ALPA-sponsorship prior to Guadeloupe Holdings purchasing them for eventual merger with SWA. To date, JB has operated under a similar set-up in that the ELT has given the JB pilots a means by which they can achieve their objectives-- formally referred to as the Direct Relationship.

The intent of providing these two timelines is to allow JB pilots the ability to compare and contrast what they have under a pseudo-in-house with an in-house that actually existed under a hostile management. FedEx's timeline is similar to AirTran's in that both in-houses struggled with their management in trying to obtain a CBA as an independent union--and both, after five years or so, finally chose ALPA sponsorship. Following that vote, both FedEx and AirTran achieved their respective CBAs in short order.

We are not stating that we cannot achieve a CBA under an independent in-house union-- we are just saying that historically speaking, we have a better chance of achieving the CBA quicker if we choose ALPA sponsorship over being an independent/in-house union. Our ELT under the direct relationship has acted just like the management teams over at FedEx and AirTran BEFORE they brought ALPA sponsorship on campus and is, therefore, "hostile". There are no expectations that their "relationship" will change once we unionize, so we provide the FedEx timeline to show what we will most likely encounter under an in-house that lacks legal, industry, and financial leverage.

Please review the FedEx timeline, then take a look at how our committee structure has struggled under the direct relationship. The final question is-- do you believe this management team will honor an in-house like the SWA/SWAPA relationship or will this management team follow the FedEx and AirTran blueprint?

One final note-- once the union drive starts, if our ELT offers to sponsor an in-house, would you expect that to be a sincere offer relative to how they have allowed the direct relationship to die?

Thumbs882

When comparing equipment Delta and UA really just went way ahead. Yes, I know they were concession contracts before but those do have an effect on the entire industry. Everyone knows this is why JB gave us our huge 2.2% bump as quick as they did. Now that the majority of carriers are out of these bankruptcy contracts JB really won't have much to stand on with any since of character. I know the 3 of you on here will hammer me for this, but even JB's own hired hand says a raise needs to come using their magical formula. If not by then I'm sure there will have been another union vote. Till then I really don't get all the animosity.

txbusdriver

The problem is it seems that ALPA is damned if they do and damned if they don't with many on this board. Pinnacle pilots were afforded the same opportunity to vote on their concessionary contract like the pilots at AA,DL,etc. Again what is it that ALPA national is supposed to do differently? Seriously I want to know. The Pinnacle pilots are taking it square in the Jimmy's. No pilot group is immune to the effects of bankruptcy.

Thumbs882

And the 3% in house dues is probably less than the 2% pre 401k dues ALPA now charges. Especially with this compounding interest everybody is so hung up on with profit sharing