"Latest and Greatest" about jetBlue
01-19-2013, 06:32 AM
#3172
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
I find it interesting there is about 3 people that say the exact same thing as each other, over and over and over. Let's see someone called me ignorant and I gave an insult back then all 3 of you came unglued on me. Talking about how bad my CRM is and how I can't have a conversation. Have you seen how insulting you guys are. If someone dosnt agree with your opinion you insult and bully. The last ******** said something about my spelling, are you kidding me. That sad truth is you guys are dumb. You think a union will do something for you, will they? You really dont understand buisness. I own a buisness, so yeah I do know a little bit. You fit the stereotype. Went to some aviation college. Then instructed in a single engine prop. Walking around like gods gift in your uniform and shades yelling at 18 year olds in the airplane. Everyone told you " you must be smart to be a pilot" so that must mean you know everything now. Your so smart, I wish I knew you personally so you could tell me how to run my life. Maybe you can look at the books of my buisness. I just can't get over how smart you guys are. Everyone must listen to you, that's why the union lost last time- right.
Not quite!
Grew up with a family business that ran for over 23 years with over 70 employees. Ran the company myself for a few years before getting into this business. I majored in business. I think you'll find a lot of Pilots on here have a lot education and experience in other fields.
However, the point is, you are seriously mistaken when you "try" to claim that greedy Pilots and unions have caused bankruptcies and furloughs. This is exactly what your management wants you to believe.
Labor costs/ Unions HAVE NOT been the cause of Airline bankruptcies and furloughs!
MAKE NO MISTAKE................
There is a wealth of historical data to support this. You just haven't taken the time to study it. We are NOT talking about mere opinion here. We are talking facts!
Management wants to compensate you less than your peers. They want you to forego industry standard benefits like healthcare and retirement. They want you to have no ability to negotiate!
This is a unionized industry. Your peers are all unionized. What does that mean in terms of business characteristics? It means that Jetblue is under NO PRESSURE from the competition to remain non-union.
Further, Jetblue is under NO PRESSURE from the competition to deny you industry std compensation and benefits!
Jetblue already has the most significant competitive advantage that comes from being non union-complete control over productivity!!!!!
Even if Jetblue compensated Pilots above average in every category, they would STILL retain this tremendous competitive advantage! Any Management team couldn't ask for a greater advantage!
This begs the question- WHY isn't compensation more in line with the peer set????
Meanwhile, people like you are believing that, because you are compensated less than your peers, your job is safer than theirs.
Let me ask you something about your business......
Do you negotiate terms or do you just take whatever is offered to you?
Do you surrender complete control to those you do business with?
Do you sell your goods/ services for less than market value?
Are you under insured?
JJ
Last edited by alvrb211; 01-19-2013 at 06:45 AM.
01-19-2013, 06:44 AM
#3173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
I find it interesting there is about 3 people that say the exact same thing as each other, over and over and over. Let's see someone called me ignorant and I gave an insult back then all 3 of you came unglued on me. Talking about how bad my CRM is and how I can't have a conversation. Have you seen how insulting you guys are. If someone dosnt agree with your opinion you insult and bully. The last ******** said something about my spelling, are you kidding me. That sad truth is you guys are dumb. You think a union will do something for you, will they? You really dont understand buisness. I own a buisness, so yeah I do know a little bit. You fit the stereotype. Went to some aviation college. Then instructed in a single engine prop. Walking around like gods gift in your uniform and shades yelling at 18 year olds in the airplane. Everyone told you " you must be smart to be a pilot" so that must mean you know everything now. Your so smart, I wish I knew you personally so you could tell me how to run my life. Maybe you can look at the books of my buisness. I just can't get over how smart you guys are. Everyone must listen to you, that's why the union lost last time- right.
Last edited by txbusdriver; 01-19-2013 at 07:22 AM.
01-19-2013, 06:44 AM
#3174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
01-19-2013, 07:02 AM
#3175
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
I got advice from early in my carrier about unions from a mentor of mine. He said "Unions protect pilots from pilots". When it comes to it there is a certain demographic who will except subpar wadges and benefits, as long as they perceive that they have to to keep their jobs. I have to ask you what perception do you have of your position in life? And do I need protection from your perception of your position in life? I respect your opinion on the union issue but understand most of us have no love for ALPA we have all watched as our friends got screwed by arguably Bad ALPA decisions. However, there is no other way for us to negotiate our position at JB.
01-19-2013, 07:07 AM
#3176
Moderator
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,971
The grammar these last few pages has been headache inducing. Marine enlisted folk aren't known for our grammatical prowess either.
And yes..I know it has nothing to do with the argument or getting a point across. Don't act like you didn't notice.
And yes..I know it has nothing to do with the argument or getting a point across. Don't act like you didn't notice.
01-19-2013, 07:14 AM
#3177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
I got advice from early in my carrier about unions from a mentor of mine. He said "Unions protect pilots from pilots". When it comes to it there is a certain demographic who will except subpar wadges and benefits, as long as they perceive that they have to to keep their jobs. I have to ask you what perception do you have of your position in life? And do I need protection from your perception of your position in life? I respect your opinion on the union issue but understand most of us have no love for ALPA we have all watched as our friends got screwed by arguably Bad ALPA decisions. However, there is no other way for us to negotiate our position at JB.
Exactly. There is no perfect solution but the DR is good for MGMT. It is NOT GOOD for Pilots, PERIOD!
ALPA has it's shortcomings. But, under the DR, Pilots have been offered NOTHING but intangible benefits that come at no cost to the company. I see no value in intangibles like "Culture" and "No furlough policies".
I'm not closed minded. Offer me tangible benefits to staying non union and you can be sure I'll consider them.
None have been offered to date and I don't buy intangibles. Sorry!
JJ
Last edited by alvrb211; 01-19-2013 at 07:27 AM.
01-19-2013, 08:37 AM
#3178
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Passed out in my hammock
Posts: 299
I find it interesting there is about 3 people that say the exact same thing as each other, over and over and over. Let's see someone called me ignorant and I gave an insult back then all 3 of you came unglued on me. Talking about how bad my CRM is and how I can't have a conversation. Have you seen how insulting you guys are. If someone dosnt agree with your opinion you insult and bully. The last ******** said something about my spelling, are you kidding me. That sad truth is you guys are dumb. You think a union will do something for you, will they? You really dont understand buisness. I own a buisness, so yeah I do know a little bit. You fit the stereotype. Went to some aviation college. Then instructed in a single engine prop. Walking around like gods gift in your uniform and shades yelling at 18 year olds in the airplane. Everyone told you " you must be smart to be a pilot" so that must mean you know everything now. Your so smart, I wish I knew you personally so you could tell me how to run my life. Maybe you can look at the books of my buisness. I just can't get over how smart you guys are. Everyone must listen to you, that's why the union lost last time- right.
If somebody hurt your feelings here, well you're just going to have to man up and get over it. You may have to work on your personal filter a little bit. Yes there are folks who will beat you over the head and tell you how stupid you are for not wanting ALPA. While I agree with their intentions, their methods leave a lot to be desired.
Ask yourself these questions - Are you comfortable with the DR as your representative body? Would you prefer an in-house union? If you would prefer the in-house route, then I have to ask - Why would you rather start with an in-house that has no money and no resources instead of ALPA where everything you need is there from day one? I think it would be wise to vote in ALPA first to expedite getting a CBA. Later on, if we are unhappy with our relationship with ALPA, we can then explore other avenues.
Also, keep in mind that the majority of us who want to see ALPA voted in are not the raging angry folks who post on these boards. I'd be more than happy to have a rational conversation with you on why I personally believe ALPA is the way to go. I can also put you in touch with people more knowledgeable than myself on the topic who are not raging screamers. PM me if you like.
Lastly, I have learned in my 6+ years here that our leadership at JB can be very deceitful. Too many examples to list here without making this long-winded post even longer.
When the time comes, please vote YES to ALPA.
01-19-2013, 08:59 AM
#3179
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
How nice that you own a business on the side. It's good to have something else going on as a source of income.
If somebody hurt your feelings here, well you're just going to have to man up and get over it. You may have to work on your personal filter a little bit. Yes there are folks who will beat you over the head and tell you how stupid you are for not wanting ALPA. While I agree with their intentions, their methods leave a lot to be desired.
Ask yourself these questions - Are you comfortable with the DR as your representative body? Would you prefer an in-house union? If you would prefer the in-house route, then I have to ask - Why would you rather start with an in-house that has no money and no resources instead of ALPA where everything you need is there from day one? I think it would be wise to vote in ALPA first to expedite getting a CBA. Later on, if we are unhappy with our relationship with ALPA, we can then explore other avenues.
Also, keep in mind that the majority of us who want to see ALPA voted in are not the raging angry folks who post on these boards. I'd be more than happy to have a rational conversation with you on why I personally believe ALPA is the way to go. I can also put you in touch with people more knowledgeable than myself on the topic who are not raging screamers. PM me if you like.
Lastly, I have learned in my 6+ years here that our leadership at JB can be very deceitful. Too many examples to list here without making this long-winded post even longer.
When the time comes, please vote YES to ALPA.
If somebody hurt your feelings here, well you're just going to have to man up and get over it. You may have to work on your personal filter a little bit. Yes there are folks who will beat you over the head and tell you how stupid you are for not wanting ALPA. While I agree with their intentions, their methods leave a lot to be desired.
Ask yourself these questions - Are you comfortable with the DR as your representative body? Would you prefer an in-house union? If you would prefer the in-house route, then I have to ask - Why would you rather start with an in-house that has no money and no resources instead of ALPA where everything you need is there from day one? I think it would be wise to vote in ALPA first to expedite getting a CBA. Later on, if we are unhappy with our relationship with ALPA, we can then explore other avenues.
Also, keep in mind that the majority of us who want to see ALPA voted in are not the raging angry folks who post on these boards. I'd be more than happy to have a rational conversation with you on why I personally believe ALPA is the way to go. I can also put you in touch with people more knowledgeable than myself on the topic who are not raging screamers. PM me if you like.
Lastly, I have learned in my 6+ years here that our leadership at JB can be very deceitful. Too many examples to list here without making this long-winded post even longer.
When the time comes, please vote YES to ALPA.
There's an attitude on campus that if Pilots want industry standard (not leading) benefits, they are playing hardball. If Pilots want anything that resembles Major Airline benefits, they are not keeping in line with company goals or objectives.
I have never met a guy who is insistant on industry leading "anything". Everyone I have talked to wants to be compensated "at the going rate".
But, that's viewed as "playing hardball".
This is not a militant Pilot group. There's no third party to blame. So, who's fault is it?
JJ
01-19-2013, 09:45 AM
#3180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,099
In another perfect example of jetblue management and being non-union the PVC recently alerted the pilot group that jetblue analyzes UN-FILTERED aircraft data which is a big no-no across the industry.
Jetblue also uses this data in disciplinary action.
Why?
Because they can. Without a union or a CBA we have no ability to protect ourselves. This management action, again, underminds the safety culture at Jetblue.
As with the recent firing of a pilot who had previously submitted an ASAP report and had it accepted the ASAP program is essentially dead.
Submitting an ASAP report essentially guarantees management can or will come after a pilot.
Jetblue also uses this data in disciplinary action.
Why?
Because they can. Without a union or a CBA we have no ability to protect ourselves. This management action, again, underminds the safety culture at Jetblue.
As with the recent firing of a pilot who had previously submitted an ASAP report and had it accepted the ASAP program is essentially dead.
Submitting an ASAP report essentially guarantees management can or will come after a pilot.
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