Originally Posted by Flyby1206

Well we currently have no way to represent ourselves in a transactional event. Whoever buys us will negotiate with our CEO.

Even if AA bought us and we were given DOH, that would be a straight staple for our whole list (12 yr old company).

Any other legacy, I could see big fences, B6 FOs being stapled, B6 CAs getting a meager integration.

Originally Posted by P-3Bubba

No dazzle to be found. There's going to be movement. Enough to upgrade in a career. Alice is just banging the negative stick. If I didn't mix it up with Alice once in awhile, I'd feel like I wasn't being a productive APC member.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Interesting discussion. It seems the underlying feeling is that Jet Blue isn't a "career airline" and the only way for advancement is to either wait for others more senior to apply to the lagacies (DAL, UAL, AAL) and hope to capitalize on that or bail yourself to one of those 3 as they will be hiring eventually and are considered career carriers (if there is such a thing nowadays). Based on that, I'm trying to understand what argument Jet Blue pilots will make for DOH or anyhting similar should one of the "career" legacies merge/acquire the apparently "stepping-stone" Jet Blue. One one hand, many JB pilots now are apparently confirming how they see Jet Blue, it's career expectations and thus what it would "bring to the table" with a lagacy as nothing more then a mediocre employer with marginally competitive compensation and a high probability for stagnation.

On the other hand, should one of the legacies aquire Jet Blue, based on these comments here, how would JB Pilots argue for free access to wide-body flying or equal consideration for legacy expansion narrowbody aircraft, especially upgrades ?

It would seem to me that arguing for DOH would be out of the question and long fences would result at a minimum. Not trying to start trouble, but considering the comments now on JB and its career worth for a pilot by many of its own pilots, I think it's a valid topic for discussion, espcially considering JB might be attractive to any of the 3 legacies. It's possible many pilots would bail to the very legacy that subsequently acquired them ending up more junior had they stayed and MAYBE had gotten a better deal. At any rate, I have difficulty seeing Jet Blue pilots representing themselves to any of the 3 legacy pilot groups as equal to any large legacy with hundreds of widebodies, perhaps hundreds of aircraft on order and large numbers of retirements in the relatively near future.

Originally Posted by P-3Bubba

I agree. The question is how much more will this change with ALPA? Look at AirTran. When ALPA started to push back on Gary Kelly he told them to accept the fences and integration or gt stapled. ALPA took the ultimatum. It would be the same at B6. A CBA is something during a M&A, but ALPA won't save the day.

Originally Posted by lake alice

P-3 I don't want to see you or anyone else out on the street. I'm not simply banging a negative stick. I've seen first hand what management is trying to do and it's more important to me than most anything to make sure other pilots are aware. Particularly junior pilots who are new. I've got mine, you don't and I've never voted or supported any ideas that protected the top without the bottom.

You are fairly new and I don't want to sound condescending but this airline and it's management team are not our friends and they don't have our best interest in mind. Hence the PEA, the latest email from the PVC, the lack of definitions in our contract, the lack of protections, and the lack of ability to enforce what is written.
This management team will do for you provided it doesn't cost money. Our protections going forward WILL cost money.
Based on 3A, 190 seniority integration, 80/20 insurance changes, the FSM, it is about the bottom line, period!
That's fine, this is a business. Nothing is personal but the pilots need to stand up for themselves.

Most of you have no idea what is happening behind the scenes between management and the PVC. I implore each of you to call your silo rep and ask questions. NDA's and the lack of indemnification are silencing the PVC from publicly providing the truth however an off the record conversation will open your eyes.

Jetblue is not a bad place to work. I'm on record as saying that but management does not want this to be a career. Your PVC will tell you that. Give them a call.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Interesting discussion. It seems the underlying feeling is that Jet Blue isn't a "career airline" and the only way for advancement is to either wait for others more senior to apply to the lagacies (DAL, UAL, AAL) and hope to capitalize on that or bail yourself to one of those 3 as they will be hiring eventually and are considered career carriers (if there is such a thing nowadays). Based on that, I'm trying to understand what argument Jet Blue pilots will make for DOH or anyhting similar should one of the "career" legacies merge/acquire the apparently "stepping-stone" Jet Blue. One one hand, many JB pilots now are apparently confirming how they see Jet Blue, it's career expectations and thus what it would "bring to the table" with a lagacy as nothing more then a mediocre employer with marginally competitive compensation and a high probability for stagnation.

On the other hand, should one of the legacies aquire Jet Blue, based on these comments here, how would JB Pilots argue for free access to wide-body flying or equal consideration for legacy expansion narrowbody aircraft, especially upgrades ?

It would seem to me that arguing for DOH would be out of the question and long fences would result at a minimum. Not trying to start trouble, but considering the comments now on JB and its career worth for a pilot by many of its own pilots, I think it's a valid topic for discussion, espcially considering JB might be attractive to any of the 3 legacies. It's possible many pilots would bail to the very legacy that subsequently acquired them ending up more junior had they stayed and MAYBE had gotten a better deal. At any rate, I have difficulty seeing Jet Blue pilots representing themselves to any of the 3 legacy pilot groups as equal to any large legacy with hundreds of widebodies, perhaps hundreds of aircraft on order and large numbers of retirements in the relatively near future.

Originally Posted by Flightnurse

First the postings of a dozen or so pilots on a discussion board out of a group of over 2000 is hardly refective of the "underlying feeling" at JetBlue. For me this is a career and a great place to work and I have no desire to go elsewhere and am working to improve on what we already have. Many of my colleagues tell me they feel the same way. I am sure others on this board will say they hear otherwise, but it all depends on your point of view.

Originally Posted by Sennaha

I would love to think JB is a career. Luckily, my head isn't in the sand. The latest group of leadership at JB is discerning at best. You say ALPA on property wouldn't do the pilots at JB any good? McCaskill Bond will protect the JB pilot group in the event of an M/A? "Many of my collegues tell me they feel the same way". W,T,F? You should pull your head out of the sand, or clouds for that matter. Wake up! This placed is being showcased to attract the highest bidder. Like the CEO, COO e-mails clearly state. ROIC!
They clearly state their position, if the pilots unionize, we will sell the place. Please, sell it already! You have a business model that is contingent on selling if the pilots unionize?
I personally, wouldn't want someone running the company I work for with that weak plan.