"Latest and Greatest" about jetBlue
03-09-2012, 04:58 PM
#2341
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 194
Reality check, the entire industry has depreciated from ten years ago. I have been in aviation for 21 years and these are my best medical benefits yet. I would compare our 320 f/o's w-2's against anyone else in the industry. Yes our retirement is substandard but our PVC informs us that they are working on it. At least we won't get left high and dry with our 10% of company contribution to our retirment/401K account. Once again the best retirement I have ever had. As for scope and merger that unfortunatly means little considering the last 10-15 years history of mergers. Union not union you are probably getting screwed during such an event. If a nice scope clause keeps you warm at night then who am I to judge. Other then Delta-NWA there hasn't been a positive meger event during recent history that warrents that worry.
Jetblue rewards pilots who want to work their butts off that's what sets us apart from the industry, if you just want to fly your line your pay will be okay but nothing great. If you want to block out at 110 plus hours a month you will see it in your paycheck. Our PTO is actually better then my friend at Delta's in that we can sell our PTO back to the company at premium pay as long as we have 100+ hours in our PTO account. Once again don't call out sick and the company financially rewards you. Jetblue isn't perfect but it is definatly a great place to be considering the state of the industry.
If you don't want to be in the industry please don't be here but the industry is where it's at, hopefully things will improve if not accept it or get out just please don't bring your misery to my bright blue work environment.
115 X 85 = $9775 or $7341 at Jetblue okay you win that argument.
Jetblue rewards pilots who want to work their butts off that's what sets us apart from the industry, if you just want to fly your line your pay will be okay but nothing great. If you want to block out at 110 plus hours a month you will see it in your paycheck. Our PTO is actually better then my friend at Delta's in that we can sell our PTO back to the company at premium pay as long as we have 100+ hours in our PTO account. Once again don't call out sick and the company financially rewards you. Jetblue isn't perfect but it is definatly a great place to be considering the state of the industry.
If you don't want to be in the industry please don't be here but the industry is where it's at, hopefully things will improve if not accept it or get out just please don't bring your misery to my bright blue work environment.
115 X 85 = $9775 or $7341 at Jetblue okay you win that argument.
21 years and paying a minimum of 20% more than everyone else for health insurance is the best you've ever had while working for a company with "values" who making record profits. I'm not sure what's worse the idiocy of the mentality or the ease of management abusing the employee group.
03-09-2012, 08:00 PM
#2342
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 73
This is the very essence of what is wrong with the JetBlue pilot group. Satisfaction with less than second best because "it's better than...".
21 years and paying a minimum of 20% more than everyone else for health insurance is the best you've ever had while working for a company with "values" who making record profits. I'm not sure what's worse the idiocy of the mentality or the ease of management abusing the employee group.
21 years and paying a minimum of 20% more than everyone else for health insurance is the best you've ever had while working for a company with "values" who making record profits. I'm not sure what's worse the idiocy of the mentality or the ease of management abusing the employee group.
03-09-2012, 09:45 PM
#2343
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Please be miserable somewhere else if you don't like what the industry has become. This is pretty far from 2nd best. I would put our W-2's against anyone else out there for aircraft, seat and senority. It is obviouse you feel disinfranchised it must suck to be in your position. But I left a job paying three times as much as my first year pay hear at JB for something more important to me then just pay (quality of life and job security) two things I value more then just $$$. If I valued only money I wouldn't have been a pilot in the first place.
03-10-2012, 04:55 AM
#2344
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
Please be miserable somewhere else if you don't like what the industry has become. This is pretty far from 2nd best. I would put our W-2's against anyone else out there for aircraft, seat and senority. It is obviouse you feel disinfranchised it must suck to be in your position. But I left a job paying three times as much as my first year pay hear at JB for something more important to me then just pay (quality of life and job security) two things I value more then just $$$. If I valued only money I wouldn't have been a pilot in the first place.
All you write about is money and w-2. As I and others have pointed out there is so much more to compensation than w-2. Your benefits are not much better than a regional. Again do you understand how much money you are losing in retirement compared to your peers with a B fund. Research a B fund, it's clear you don't understand what it is. Your health insurance is way too expensive and you will go bankrupt on LTD. Do your homework, ask around and see what you come up with. It's great you love your job but understand what your compensation is and how it compares.
03-10-2012, 06:43 AM
#2345
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Pointing out shortfalls in our compensation doesn't mean one is miserable. You think you have job security? You are fooling yourself if you really believe that.
All you write about is money and w-2. As I and others have pointed out there is so much more to compensation than w-2. Your benefits are not much better than a regional. Again do you understand how much money you are losing in retirement compared to your peers with a B fund. Research a B fund, it's clear you don't understand what it is. Your health insurance is way too expensive and you will go bankrupt on LTD. Do your homework, ask around and see what you come up with. It's great you love your job but understand what your compensation is and how it compares.
All you write about is money and w-2. As I and others have pointed out there is so much more to compensation than w-2. Your benefits are not much better than a regional. Again do you understand how much money you are losing in retirement compared to your peers with a B fund. Research a B fund, it's clear you don't understand what it is. Your health insurance is way too expensive and you will go bankrupt on LTD. Do your homework, ask around and see what you come up with. It's great you love your job but understand what your compensation is and how it compares.
You mentioned the B plan so here is my calculation. We are getting 5% profit sharing and 5% 401k matching 10 percent from the company towards retirement everyone else gets 13 percent - 2% union dues so that equals 11% got it. That 1% will not make or brake my retirement but yes I would like to get that 1%. Our PVC is addressing this and every other issue you put fourth but as we are not much bigger then most regionals some of this issues can't be dealt with without costing the company big $$$. However, we continue to organically grow, get accross the board pay raises (for the pilots only) and hire more pilots the Jet Blue business model works. If you can't see how it is working thats fine most pilots aren't business savey enough to, as most of us don't have a background in running business we have been to busy doing what we love, flying airplanes.
03-10-2012, 07:15 AM
#2346
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 58
Hi guys, I am in the pool awaiting a class date at jetBlue. I came to this thread expecting to read helpful information that may be of interest to people in my situation. What is the latest and greatest at jetBlue? I realize that a lot of the people posting here work at other airlines but I have to wonder, is this nastiness what I can expect to find in the cockpit at jetBlue? What percentage of my future coworkers are going to spew this vitriol? How often will I be subjected to this ugliness? I have been more than a little turned off by them. I believe this thread was set up to share information on growth, hiring plans, and new hire training. Isn't there another, more appropriate thread where they can debate these issues?
Last edited by MaxFwdSpeed; 03-10-2012 at 07:27 AM. Reason: typo
03-10-2012, 07:23 AM
#2347
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
I understand that that are shortcomings here, no place is perfect. I have a perfect understanding of what a B fund is, however you are making the same argument that guys were when the old A funds went away. We are in an ever changing industry and we need to change with it.
You mentioned the B plan so here is my calculation. We are getting 5% profit sharing and 5% 401k matching 10 percent from the company towards retirement everyone else gets 13 percent - 2% union dues so that equals 11% got it. That 1% will not make or brake my retirement but yes I would like to get that 1%. Our PVC is addressing this and every other issue you put fourth but as we are not much bigger then most regionals some of this issues can't be dealt with without costing the company big $$$. However, we continue to organically grow, get accross the board pay raises (for the pilots only) and hire more pilots the Jet Blue business model works. If you can't see how it is working thats fine most pilots aren't business savey enough to, as most of us don't have a background in running business we have been to busy doing what we love, flying airplanes.
You mentioned the B plan so here is my calculation. We are getting 5% profit sharing and 5% 401k matching 10 percent from the company towards retirement everyone else gets 13 percent - 2% union dues so that equals 11% got it. That 1% will not make or brake my retirement but yes I would like to get that 1%. Our PVC is addressing this and every other issue you put fourth but as we are not much bigger then most regionals some of this issues can't be dealt with without costing the company big $$$. However, we continue to organically grow, get accross the board pay raises (for the pilots only) and hire more pilots the Jet Blue business model works. If you can't see how it is working thats fine most pilots aren't business savey enough to, as most of us don't have a background in running business we have been to busy doing what we love, flying airplanes.
What are you implying about a B fund? Please explain.
Your medical benefits are lousy and much more expensive than most majors and even some regional carriers. On LTD you pay COBRA for 18 months and then have access to the company plan for 3 years thereafter. Most carriers with a CBA restrict the maximum a pilot will pay for health care and access to the the plan on LTD.
I'll gladly pay 2% in dues for the right to negotiate. Everything I've shared with you is about being industry AVERAGE. That's it, average, not industry leading. The 2% dues will come back to you in spades over a career. Again, don't be penny wise and pound foolish. 90%+ of airline pilots are unionized. Are we the smart ones or the dumb ones?
03-10-2012, 07:26 AM
#2348
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Blue fifi flogger
Posts: 739
Climb to 450, it's great that you like your job here, most of us do.
You're missing several salient points. First of all, with a B-Fund, the company contributes whether or not you do. That first 5 percent from JB comes only if you match it, so your 5 percent minus 2 percent dues equals a 3 percent deficit before you even get to the 10 vs. 13 percent argument. Second, those B-fund contributions are monthly, whereas our 5 percent "profit sharing" comes once a year. I ran the numbers with T.Rowe, and had I been receiving that extra 5 percent every month last year with last year's market, I would purchased an extra 5k worth of shares in my funds during a rising market, vs. purchasing them at the end of this March at much higher prices. That's a deficit of 8 thousand bucks at last year's growth rate, which has enriched JB's bottom line instead of my family's. But you knew all that right, and it's ok because we need to be worse than every other carrier that is operating on bankruptcy era contracts?
And finally, to all you juicers, please please please stop comparing us to a regional. We're not one, even if we do fly Embraer jets.
By the way, TX beat me to it. Nice job, repeated here in hopes someone might actually listen, sigh....
You're missing several salient points. First of all, with a B-Fund, the company contributes whether or not you do. That first 5 percent from JB comes only if you match it, so your 5 percent minus 2 percent dues equals a 3 percent deficit before you even get to the 10 vs. 13 percent argument. Second, those B-fund contributions are monthly, whereas our 5 percent "profit sharing" comes once a year. I ran the numbers with T.Rowe, and had I been receiving that extra 5 percent every month last year with last year's market, I would purchased an extra 5k worth of shares in my funds during a rising market, vs. purchasing them at the end of this March at much higher prices. That's a deficit of 8 thousand bucks at last year's growth rate, which has enriched JB's bottom line instead of my family's. But you knew all that right, and it's ok because we need to be worse than every other carrier that is operating on bankruptcy era contracts?
And finally, to all you juicers, please please please stop comparing us to a regional. We're not one, even if we do fly Embraer jets.
By the way, TX beat me to it. Nice job, repeated here in hopes someone might actually listen, sigh....
Last edited by aewanabe; 03-10-2012 at 07:27 AM. Reason: too slow typing.
03-10-2012, 07:39 AM
#2349
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,691
Hi guys, I am in the pool awaiting a class date at jetBlue. I came to this thread expecting to read helpful information that may be of interest to people in my situation. What is the latest and greatest at jetBlue? I realize that a lot of the people posting here work at other airlines but I have to wonder, is this nastiness what I can expect to find in the cockpit at jetBlue? What percentage of my future coworkers are going to spew this vitriol? How often will I be subjected to this ugliness? I have been more than a little turned off by them. I believe this thread was set up to share information on growth, hiring plans, and new hire training. Isn't there another, more appropriate thread where they can debate these issues?
I think the important thing for all future newhires to remember is that jetblue isnt a utopia where everything is perfect. Yes, there are a ton of great things about this company, but there are also many things that need to be fixed. We are all here to improve and make this a career airline, and hope that everyone who joins the company in the future has that same mindset.
03-10-2012, 07:55 AM
#2350
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
Hi guys, I am in the pool awaiting a class date at jetBlue. I came to this thread expecting to read helpful information that may be of interest to people in my situation. What is the latest and greatest at jetBlue? I realize that a lot of the people posting here work at other airlines but I have to wonder, is this nastiness what I can expect to find in the cockpit at jetBlue? What percentage of my future coworkers are going to spew this vitriol? How often will I be subjected to this ugliness? I have been more than a little turned off by them. I believe this thread was set up to share information on growth, hiring plans, and new hire training. Isn't there another, more appropriate thread where they can debate these issues?
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