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01-26-2012, 07:17 AM

#2031

Bluedriver

The REAL Bluedriver

Joined APC: Sep 2011

Position: Airbus Capt

Posts: 6,920

Quote:

Originally Posted by lake alice

One more thing. A CBA allows you to put restrictions on a route stating if pax loads reach a certain level the route is then done by the original carrier. Do we have that? No. Wouldnt it make sense to fly a route if the alliance carrier is filling their ac with our pax. Also, because you signed, and probably never read, the PPA we can't do that PAC rim flying. Hawaii won't be one of our routes. Or anything in that direction for that matter because of the PPA. Again, bad legacy CBA's ruin airlines and pilot groups. Having a say is a bad idea.

JetBlue has conditioned you to think cost control, cost creep, we are all equal, organic growth, manage expectations. They slipped this announcement in, touted it and convinced you it isn't what it appears and you bought it.

Again, read the first paragraph.

Please explain why this is the case. Honest question.

01-26-2012, 07:34 AM

#2032

lake alice

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Dec 2010

Posts: 194

Read section 2-5 of the PPA and then send an email to BT on the PVC. The PPA is very clear on this but also the legal interpretation of the PPA is pertinent as well. This is a much bigger deal than people believe. Essentially we are giving away flying that our ac, current and on order, CAN do. Take a moment to email him directly and get the info yourself. The BoB's on this board aren't going to take my word for it.

Forgot one other thing. According to th press announcement the alliance is expandable to HA from other west coast destinations.

Essentially the PPA states this flying is not subject to the PVC review making it gone forever. How's that for culture and organic growth.

Last edited by lake alice; 01-26-2012 at 08:23 AM.

01-26-2012, 08:30 AM

#2033

cmesoar

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Sep 2008

Position: FO

Posts: 302

Hey Alice, last I checked United pilots was ALPA right? ok, just wanted to make sure... What happened to their pension? Oh, gone.. how about US Airways... Gone... Oh and one more thing, do some research on an airline that flys pretty green planes from dulles to Madrid for united... I personally would not be against a internal union at JB. HOWEVER, I do not agree for one second that a union, especially one that is in it for a buck like ALPA, is 100%. Just my 2 cents

01-26-2012, 08:57 AM

#2034

lake alice

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Dec 2010

Posts: 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmesoar

Cmesoar, the pensions were taken by a bankruptcy judge, not ALPA. Let's stick to the facts. Their 401K's however were not and are still higher with greater monthly matches than ours. In a bankruptcy proceeding a union, including ALPA, will assist you in retaining benefits. Let's discuss Dulles to Madrid. Again, this is not ALPAs fault. United's pilot group NEGOTIATED this. They may or may not have negotiated caps on loads that require united to take over the route itself. Again, a negotiation. You cannot blame a union for everything that happens in bankruptcy. And you cannot blame ALPA for everything just because everyone else does without knowing the facts.

01-26-2012, 09:54 AM

#2035

p1ayn

Used to get weekends off

Joined APC: Dec 2006

Position: BusFo

Posts: 581

Last time I checked we voted a hell "NO" to ALPA. TWICE. Why are we even discussing this dead issue? Do they want their ALPA Id lanyards back? My dog chewed it up four airlines ago. Heres a thought, we are making money, we are hiring, we are getting planes. It is what it is, and I for one am happy as hell to be here. All in favor say "I". carry on...

01-26-2012, 10:00 AM

#2036

P-3Bubba

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2006

Position: P-3C

Posts: 982

"I" Sir.............

01-26-2012, 10:24 AM

#2037

lake alice

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Dec 2010

Posts: 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by p1ayn

Exact mentality that lead to losing west coast flying to HA. Not reading or understanding the 5 documents. This isn't only about ALPA. And we only voted for ALPA once. Shocking.

01-26-2012, 10:46 AM

#2038

Lancer

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Sep 2008

Position: C-5, 68th AS Rated Hiring Board Chief, B-1 Aircraft Commander/Mission Lead

Posts: 113

23 million in profits and 1.15 billion in revenue for 4Q, Very well done!

01-26-2012, 11:13 AM

#2039

sidestep

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jul 2008

Position: F0

Posts: 404

Quote:

Originally Posted by lake alice

Exact mentality that lead to losing west coast flying to HA. Not reading or understanding the 5 documents. This isn't only about ALPA. And we only voted for ALPA once. Shocking.

This arguement holds little water. Delta (ALPA) has a codeshare agreement (more encompassing agreement than interline) with Hawaiian. Last time I checked they still fly from LAX/SFO/PDX/SEA/SLC and ATL to hawaii..

01-26-2012, 11:28 AM

#2040

lake alice

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Dec 2010

Posts: 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by sidestep

Delta's is with Alaska. Theirs specifies once a certain load level is reached the route is then assumed by Delta. A negotiated clause is a CBA. JetBlue pilots gave that right away. So all west coast flying to HA is not subject to a PVC vote. There is no opportunity for JetBlue pilots to regain the route.