"Latest and Greatest" about jetBlue
12-24-2011, 04:24 AM
#1661
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
T,
We have new merger protection language written into our contract. Some lawyers say it is stronger language than any CBA. I am not a lawyer, and it may not he worth the paper it is written on. But the one fact that I do know is that ALPA did nothing for the AirTran pilots, and yes I understand they voted for their own fate. But most are willing to take the risk that our new merger language beats any union contract. We also have scope language in our new contract as well.
My personal opinion, and I will say this again, especially for Lake Alice. JetBlue can always improve, in all aspects of our compensation. But, for a relatively young carrier we have come a very long way in a very short time. I like working at JetBlue. I would prefer to have a competitive advantage over others and continue to grow, while making improvements in our contract rather than some extremely unrealistic contract that causes stagnation, possible pay cuts or even worse furloughs.
We have new merger protection language written into our contract. Some lawyers say it is stronger language than any CBA. I am not a lawyer, and it may not he worth the paper it is written on. But the one fact that I do know is that ALPA did nothing for the AirTran pilots, and yes I understand they voted for their own fate. But most are willing to take the risk that our new merger language beats any union contract. We also have scope language in our new contract as well.
My personal opinion, and I will say this again, especially for Lake Alice. JetBlue can always improve, in all aspects of our compensation. But, for a relatively young carrier we have come a very long way in a very short time. I like working at JetBlue. I would prefer to have a competitive advantage over others and continue to grow, while making improvements in our contract rather than some extremely unrealistic contract that causes stagnation, possible pay cuts or even worse furloughs.
Good luck.
12-24-2011, 04:46 AM
#1662
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 536
First of all, I wasn't advocating ALPA in any way. The question was only to find out what kind of protection you think you might have. I think I know the answer, and I sincerely wish you all the luck in the world, because I think you will need it in the event of a merger. I am curious though, you mentioned "contract" Is it a CBA contract, or an individual contract signed by each pilot with the company? As for the Airtran pilots.. nevermind.
Good luck.
Good luck.
I'm sure you know we have individual pilot agreements at JetBlue. As far as the protection language, it would take way to long to post on this page. Essentially it is language that protects us in the event of any corporate transaction. Is it worth the paper it's written on? I don't know the answer, although we have paid independent labor attorneys to review the language and they say it is very strong. Don't know if I trust the lawyers, but that is the short answer.
By the way, I wasn't implying that you were bringing up ALPA, only the classic argument about JetBlue pilots not having a CBA vs our current individual pilot agreements.
12-24-2011, 04:59 AM
#1663
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 194
T,
I'm sure you know we have individual pilot agreements at JetBlue. As far as the protection language, it would take way to long to post on this page. Essentially it is language that protects us in the event of any corporate transaction. Is it worth the paper it's written on? I don't know the answer, although we have paid independent labor attorneys to review the language and they say it is very strong. Don't know if I trust the lawyers, but that is the short answer.
By the way, I wasn't implying that you were bringing up ALPA, only the classic argument about JetBlue pilots not having a CBA vs our current individual pilot agreements.
I'm sure you know we have individual pilot agreements at JetBlue. As far as the protection language, it would take way to long to post on this page. Essentially it is language that protects us in the event of any corporate transaction. Is it worth the paper it's written on? I don't know the answer, although we have paid independent labor attorneys to review the language and they say it is very strong. Don't know if I trust the lawyers, but that is the short answer.
By the way, I wasn't implying that you were bringing up ALPA, only the classic argument about JetBlue pilots not having a CBA vs our current individual pilot agreements.
Take the time to email the PVC and ask them specifically what the lawyers in DC said. The opinion email regarding the DC meetings sent to the pilot group by the previous PVC was just that, the PVC opinion. Scott and Yoder wrote that. The lawyers had something quite different to say and it's eye opening. Again, our pilots keep taking people at their word. The previous BoB's on the PVC do not have your best interest in mind. We are not protected in a CBA world. Also, our scope is only valid because Sandoval accidentally sent an email with specifics not included in the section 15. So to reiterate section 15 is only valid because a leadership member accidentally sent an email. The lawyers were flabbergasted even more so by section 15's definition of control.
I'm glad you like your job. I enjoy flying with guys/gals like you but it is very important you understand the truth. Get involved and you will experience the under belly of this company. Jetblue is great as long as you don't want anything.
As for the young company comment I ask you how many years do we need to be in business before we can expect industry standard? I'm not trying to be obnoxious or rude but that is a serious question. With over a billion in reserves I think Jetblue can afford it.
12-24-2011, 06:13 AM
#1664
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 536
Take the time to email the PVC and ask them specifically what the lawyers in DC said. The opinion email regarding the DC meetings sent to the pilot group by the previous PVC was just that, the PVC opinion. Also, our scope is only valid because Sandoval accidentally sent an email with specifics not included in the section 15.
As for the young company comment I ask you how many years do we need to be in business before we can expect industry standard? With over a billion in reserves I think Jetblue can afford it.
As for the young company comment I ask you how many years do we need to be in business before we can expect industry standard? With over a billion in reserves I think Jetblue can afford it.
I will do just that and E-mail my PVC rep. However, I tend to trust those pilots that we have elected to represent us to give us truthful and valid information. I do not believe that any pilot would lie to me in written format. But I will respect your point and do the research with current PVC members.
I do believe our retirement needs to improve to a 13% 401K match. I would rather have the profit sharing, bundled into the match, vice the guaranteed profit sharing. Better LOL would also be nice. Health care to me is competitive with corporate America.
What I don't want is union mandates and unproductive union featherbedding that has destroyed airlines in the past. I don't want to turn this into a union debate, but I would rather have our current model with modest sustainable improvements, vice ALPA. Give me JBPA or an independent union and we can talk, but no desire for ALPA.
12-24-2011, 06:25 AM
#1665
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 712
How many people are on the pvc?
12-24-2011, 11:30 AM
#1667
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
Capt,
Do you have friends at Delta? If you do, please ask them how much their seniority has gone up. You may notice that unfortunately for Delta folks not soo much. How much has your seniority gone up since you were hired at JetBlue? Quite a bit I would imagine. I would be careful what you wish for, you may not be much happier at Delta. I do have friends at Delta, and I can tell you hands down my schedule is better relative to theirs. Yes, JetBlue needs to improve, but it is not as gloom and doom as you make it out to be. In my opinion.
Do you have friends at Delta? If you do, please ask them how much their seniority has gone up. You may notice that unfortunately for Delta folks not soo much. How much has your seniority gone up since you were hired at JetBlue? Quite a bit I would imagine. I would be careful what you wish for, you may not be much happier at Delta. I do have friends at Delta, and I can tell you hands down my schedule is better relative to theirs. Yes, JetBlue needs to improve, but it is not as gloom and doom as you make it out to be. In my opinion.
12-24-2011, 11:50 AM
#1668
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Posts: 3,150
PTO is your "personal time off" it is used for sick, vacation, paid time off, ect. and is all in the same bank. Get sick no vacation for you, take a vacation, don't get too sick. JB was found in violation of USERRA laws. Service men/women not being correctly compensated while on MIL duty.
Listen guys it's not "doom and gloom" here. I had the blue juice blasting through me at one point too. To some end I still do, this is a good place to work. It's a great place to work when everything is running 100% . But after nearly 5 years here you start to see through the smoke and mirrors. Just because something doesn't directly affect you, doesn't mean you shouldn't pay attention. To that end, when you see these things it must make you wonder how you'll be treated in a situation should it occur.
I come to work, I do my job, I'm glad to have a job that pays well. Like I said above I keep my end up, managment should too.
12-24-2011, 02:56 PM
#1669
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 73 gear slinger
Posts: 312
The only pay issue that i've had was when we to into IROPs and crew services "loses your trips". I've always been paid correctly on rsv, but you still need to pay attention. We have three ways to track pay now, but I guess only one is really right now so it can be confusing.
PTO is your "personal time off" it is used for sick, vacation, paid time off, ect. and is all in the same bank. Get sick no vacation for you, take a vacation, don't get too sick. JB was found in violation of USERRA laws. Service men/women not being correctly compensated while on MIL duty.
Listen guys it's not "doom and gloom" here. I had the blue juice blasting through me at one point too. To some end I still do, this is a good place to work. It's a great place to work when everything is running 100% . But after nearly 5 years here you start to see through the smoke and mirrors. Just because something doesn't directly affect you, doesn't mean you shouldn't pay attention. To that end, when you see these things it must make you wonder how you'll be treated in a situation should it occur.
I come to work, I do my job, I'm glad to have a job that pays well. Like I said above I keep my end up, managment should too.
PTO is your "personal time off" it is used for sick, vacation, paid time off, ect. and is all in the same bank. Get sick no vacation for you, take a vacation, don't get too sick. JB was found in violation of USERRA laws. Service men/women not being correctly compensated while on MIL duty.
Listen guys it's not "doom and gloom" here. I had the blue juice blasting through me at one point too. To some end I still do, this is a good place to work. It's a great place to work when everything is running 100% . But after nearly 5 years here you start to see through the smoke and mirrors. Just because something doesn't directly affect you, doesn't mean you shouldn't pay attention. To that end, when you see these things it must make you wonder how you'll be treated in a situation should it occur.
I come to work, I do my job, I'm glad to have a job that pays well. Like I said above I keep my end up, managment should too.
Just curious, but why would a union be a bad thing? I see lots of people complain about ALPA, but it seems like the SWA folks tend to like theirs. Having never really had a civilian career, I don't know much about unions, but I always thought that it was to protect the majority from stuff like these PTO and USERRA issues, as well as negotiate things such as pay rates and compensation. Obviously jB'ers don't want one, because it's been over a decade and pilot contracts still seem to be the standard, but what gives?
Thanks in advance for the schooling...
12-24-2011, 04:05 PM
#1670
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,691
Just curious, but why would a union be a bad thing? I see lots of people complain about ALPA, but it seems like the SWA folks tend to like theirs. Having never really had a civilian career, I don't know much about unions, but I always thought that it was to protect the majority from stuff like these PTO and USERRA issues, as well as negotiate things such as pay rates and compensation. Obviously jB'ers don't want one, because it's been over a decade and pilot contracts still seem to be the standard, but what gives?
Thanks in advance for the schooling...
Thanks in advance for the schooling...
Beyond that, we all have our own opinions about ALPA, unions in general, non-union carriers, etc based on past experiences and what we think would be the future of either a non-union or unionized jetblue.
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