Flytolive

ALPA or pilots? Is there any pilot group that doesn't have membership ratification? The pilots have agreed to these deals that you seem to think are substandard. IOW your views are not in synch with the majority of the pilots who bother to vote.

Pilots have also elected their reps although the vast majority of pilots don't even bother to cast that vote. It is ironic that DPA came from the same pilot group whose pilots run ALPA and run it well IMO.

We have seen the enemy and it is not ALPA. It is us.

bigbusdriver

..............but we only need 23 more cards..............

Carl Spackler

ALPA.

Not that I know of.

Correct.

That's where you ALPA spokespersons go off the rails. Many yes voters in C2012 did so because they felt it was the lesser of two very bad choices given the MEC administration maneuvered our reps into a no-win situation. I've spoken to many of them. While some pilots voted yes because they loved the TA, others hated it but had to acknowledge the dire consequences of what could happen with a no vote as stated by numerous MEC administration members during the TA road shows. Yes votes do not necessarily mean one is "in synch" with the majority.

This MEC administration has made the local rep all but meaningless. Pilots electing individual reps is a meaningless exercise without a strategic plan to wipe out ATL reps. Until that happens, reps mean nothing.

Richard Anderson runs ALPA, so not sure what you're trying to assert here.

Negative, it is ALPA. Ask any TWA pilot. Or Eastern pilot. Or Midwest pilot. Or unionized workers at ALPA. Or...

Carl

Flytolive

I love it. The reps were outmaneuvered by the MEC administration? What was the incentive for the MEC Administration to cram down a substandard agreement? Who elected these incompetent reps? A strategic plan to wipe out the ATL reps? If they are that bad I can give you the plan. Recall them. Vote for better reps. Of course that would require you and others like you to convince the majority of ATL pilots to do the same, and that is the rub.

Sorry Carl, but by their actions or inaction the majority of the pilots simply don't agree with you perception of ALPA and their contracts or are unwilling/unable to affect change. You and critics like you need to put up of shut up. By all means please show us how it is done. Lead us to your operation orange nirvana. A good start would be for you to define exactly what your contractual standards are and then explain in detail the leverage you would utilize to achieve and sustain that standard against forces with vastly more resources, talent and political clout.

Carl Spackler

You should stop with the attempt at revising history. It makes you look like nothing more than an ALPA spokesperson/spinmeister. There is no question that we were all outmaneuvered by shameless and dishonorable members of O'Malley's MEC. Some of those dishonorable members were fired afterward because of their successful actions to marginalize our reps by using the process against them. Others stayed behind and continued their dishonorable behavior and successfully destroyed a duly elected MEC chairman (Roberts). Of this there is no question. You attempting to make it sound like an outrageous claim just destroys your credibility.

The incentive is to maintain the spirit of partnership between our "union" and management. That directive is more important to our local "union" and our national "union" than any other priority or directive. Fighting harder for a contract that better aligned with the pilot survey would have possibly injured that partnership. Reps' demands that profit sharing not be changed had to be ignored and outmaneuvered because management required the reduction in profit sharing in order to get an early deal. The partnership with management trumps all.

The reps weren't incompetent. They have to operate in a rules environment that has made them almost completely worthless.

A strategic plan is not a knee-jerk reaction ace. The ATL reps are a huge part of the problem. Do the majority of ATL pilots know this or believe this? I don't know. This "union" cannot turn around without ATL pilots leading the way by wiping out the current reps. Every single ATL rep is a complete rubber stamp for the MEC administration.

Incorrect. ATL pilots are the key to this. And even yes voting ATL pilots does not mean they support this "union" as I've stated in previous posts.

We will continue to "put up" ace, you can count on that. We've failed with DPA, but the effort will continue in another way. You ALPA spokespeople just refuse to understand how badly ALPA has failed on so many levels. That's why the extremely strong energy to replace you. I'm counting on you spokespeople to continue with your characterization of us as a vocal minority to be pitied. It's the best thing you can do for us.

As you well know, it's been done many, many times here. You just choose to ignore it. ALPA refuses to use the leverage and negotiating environment we're in. They refused in C2012 and they will refuse again in C2015. That's the problem. All ALPA's energies are spent explaining why things cannot be done. Why? First is because labor risk is expensive...it's not good for the business that is ALPA. Second is the priority of partnership with management. That's why we're seeing the lowering expectations already beginning with DALPA publications.

Carl

Flytolive

All evidence, such as DPA's failure, to the contrary. They and you have failed to provide the leadership to convince 50% + 1 to act in accordance with your views of the world. Thankfully, majority rules in democratically decided affairs such as these. For that I and the majority of pilots are thankful.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Carl Spackler

Yes, the alternative union drive did fail this time. But due to ALPA's purposeful misrepresentation, the drive will continue in another form.

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well.

Carl

Bucking Bar

Carl Spackler

Carl

Justdoinmyjob

Is that the DPA taking the swing? How prophetic.