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Old 10-11-2014, 04:16 PM
  #9411  
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Originally Posted by hitimefurl
He was one of those Time Value of Money guys

(Text stolen shamelessly from the dead sea forum)
Can you imagine the wave of unity if Donatelli put that out tomorrow?
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:24 PM
  #9412  
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Originally Posted by hitimefurl
He was one of those Time Value of Money guys

CONTRACT 2000 A Timely and Superior Agreement BY CAPT. JOHN MALONE, NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN

In pursuit of Contract 2000 your union has set a goal of a timely and superior agreement. We all understand superior, but why the emphasis on timely?

Is it not true that full scale negotiations normally go far past the amendable date, which in our case is May 2, 2000? Will we sacrifice some of the superior to achieve timely? Why would management want to take part in timely if it means giving the pilots superior? What happens if we do not get timely? We heard these questions at every road show. Here are our answers.

Why the emphasis on timely?

We have lived long enough under Contract 1996.

There is the time value of money. The longer it takes to achieve a pay raise, the larger that raise must be to equal a “timely raise.” Money becomes less valuable with time due to inflation and because you do not have that money to invest.

Retro pay becomes more contentious the longer it takes us to reach a settlement.

Work rules and quality of life items are never retroactive.

We need scope improvements now.

The economy is booming and this is great time to achieve our goals!

The political climate is right. If we go much past May, we run into the national political elections and our chances of getting relief in the form of a release from the Federal government may diminish. We are such a large carrier that we may have to wait until the new President takes office.

A timely agreement helps with pattern bargaining. The earlier we achieve our next superior agreement, the more we help our brothers and sisters in the industry. Delta and United are amendable in 2000, American in 2001, Northwest in 2002, and US Airways in 2003. We leap over them, and they leap over us in turn, setting the stage for our next contract.

Is it not true that these negotiations normally go far past the amendable date?
That has certainly been the trend, but we do not believe that this must be the case in our situation. It has become “acceptable” for the amendable date to come and go in our industry. We must no longer accept that it is okay to go beyond the amendable date, especially for one or two years. Your union has committed all the resources necessary to achieve an on time agreement and will aggressively pursue this goal.

Will we sacrifice some of the superior to achieve timely?
Number We will not sacrifice superior to achieve timely. We must have both. This is easy to measure in terms of work rules; however, do not forget the time value of money.

Why would management want to take part in timely if it means giving the pilots superior?
This is a great question. The last time we negotiated a full Section Six agreement with management we were giving concessions and management could not get us to an agreement fast enough. Why is the reverse not true now?

Labor peace is more valuable than most of us believe. First, it allows management to concentrate on running the business. Second, it allows management the ability to secure capital at lower rates (the moneylenders rightfully perceive higher risk in lending money to a company that may experience labor strife).

Since coming to Delta, Leo Mullin has found it difficult to continue with the corporation’s fleet plans. He also found it impossible to execute the code-share agreement he wanted with United because of the relationship with his pilots. The only way management can get this pilot group to cooperate with its goals is to allow us to share in the wealth and prosperity that the company is enjoying. The only acceptable way to do that is through a timely and superior agreement. Your union leadership reminds management of this at every opportunity.

There are some questions that your union leadership asks to determine whether management is really interested in concluding a timely agreement. They are:

Has management made any public statements committing to a timely agreement?

Has management assembled a capable negotiating committee?

Is that committee able to schedule negotiating sessions, and do they attend those sessions prepared to work?

Is management willing to work with us on our issues?

So far, the answer to all of the above questions is yes.

What happens if we don’t get timely?

As stated earlier, we will not sacrifice superior for timely. Due to issues such as the value of money over time and the ever changing nature of scope, this contract will become ever more expensive for management. This is especially true as the pilots continue to lose faith that this management team is committed to bringing the pilots on the same team as the rest of the corporation.

If we do not achieve a timely agreement we must all be prepared to see this through the long way provided by Railway Labor Act. That means preparing your family both financially and emotionally for a legal job action.

May 2, 2000, is a real goal.
Wow, he was indeed a very good communicator. And good follow-through-er.

Carl

Last edited by Carl Spackler; 10-11-2014 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 10-11-2014, 05:34 PM
  #9413  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
That's funny. He claims that things like pay banding are a done deal and we're actively negotiating for it. We aren't in negotiations, nor has it even been mentioned.
I don't believe he's said we're actively negotiating for it. I think he's said that management is discussing this actively with key leaders in our MEC administration. I think that's clearly correct. My LCA friends are saying they hear the same thing about pay banding and increased freezes. I've not heard anything about pressure to reduce profit sharing from any credible source yet, but I sure don't know everyone.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
That's what we call throwing crap against the wall and seeing what sticks. He didn't even understand why pay banding is a bad thing!
Actually, it's not. It's called: Connecting dots. I remember how much you and others appreciated it when acl65pilot would connect dots around here.

The real story is that we are relegated to having to connect dots within an organization that we fund and ostensibly, works for us. Bucking Bar put it really well the other day when he described the Moak machine as an incredibly disciplined and focused political machine that knows how to keep their mouths shut. That's exactly how I see it as well. Mr. Moak's tactic thus far has been to march toward an objective that we members know nothing about, and will know nothing about until it's too late to change it. With that in mind, you have to connect dots, try to verify rumors as fact, and arrive at conclusions through the process of elimination.

Shouldn't have to be that way, but it is. Therefore, I don't think you can or should ridicule those who are trying to stay a few steps ahead on the chessboard.

Carl
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Old 10-11-2014, 06:07 PM
  #9414  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Wow, he was indeed a very good communicator. And good follow-through-er.

Carl
And he recognized the time value of money.

"There is the time value of money. The longer it takes to achieve a pay raise, the larger that raise must be to equal a “timely raise.” Money becomes less valuable with time due to inflation and because you do not have that money to invest."
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Old 10-11-2014, 06:09 PM
  #9415  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Again, we were talking about C2K. My post was in regard to that. Try to keep up, buddy.
Hey, you're the one quoting a summary of C96-LOA51 scope. Try to keep up with your own posts, buddy.
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Old 10-11-2014, 06:19 PM
  #9416  
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Originally Posted by Reroute
And he recognized the time value of money.

"There is the time value of money. The longer it takes to achieve a pay raise, the larger that raise must be to equal a “timely raise.” Money becomes less valuable with time due to inflation and because you do not have that money to invest."
Of course there's a value in the time value of money. That alone is not the issue. The issue is accepting wage increases that do not keep up with inflation or restore us, then claiming you had to do it because of the time value of money. That's what John clearly understood. That's why he helped negotiate Delta's historically high pay rates (that really just brought Delta pilots back to where they were adjusted for inflation), AND did so quickly.

That's the different Reroute. The post Malone regimes have only jumped on the time value of money part, while ignoring the restoration part.

Carl
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Old 10-11-2014, 07:10 PM
  #9417  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
This is the kind of thing that damages your credibility here RBF. Think real hard...is there no other way someone could experience John Malone's goal setting, communication, and leadership skills except by being a Delta pilot? Think real hard. I'll give you a hint: Both NWA and Delta were ALPA represented airlines.

Think just a little bit before you post.

Carl
My apologies Senior Director. I guess you missed the "?" mark at the end of my two sentences.

Spare me your patroniziation. As a former south guy if I were to judge Dave Steven's leadership you, Jerry & co would jump down my throat because I had NO PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with him! Looking in from the outside is waaaay different than being on the inside but you know that too.

Jerry could give a rats butt about Malone. He's only using him for his own twisted logic. If Malone was our current MEC chair Jerry would be posting how great a leader Donatelli was as Strike Chair.
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Old 10-11-2014, 07:29 PM
  #9418  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
I don't believe he's said we're actively negotiating for it. I think he's said that management is discussing this actively with key leaders in our MEC administration. I think that's clearly correct. My LCA friends are saying they hear the same thing about pay banding and increased freezes. I've not heard anything about pressure to reduce profit sharing from any credible source yet, but I sure don't know everyone.



Actually, it's not. It's called: Connecting dots. I remember how much you and others appreciated it when acl65pilot would connect dots around here.

The real story is that we are relegated to having to connect dots within an organization that we fund and ostensibly, works for us. Bucking Bar put it really well the other day when he described the Moak machine as an incredibly disciplined and focused political machine that knows how to keep their mouths shut. That's exactly how I see it as well. Mr. Moak's tactic thus far has been to march toward an objective that we members know nothing about, and will know nothing about until it's too late to change it. With that in mind, you have to connect dots, try to verify rumors as fact, and arrive at conclusions through the process of elimination.

Shouldn't have to be that way, but it is. Therefore, I don't think you can or should ridicule those who are trying to stay a few steps ahead on the chessboard.

Carl
The difference between the way acl "connected dots" was it was actually good information and not presented in a sensationalistic manner to get attention. Jerry just throws crap out there to get a reaction to try to promote his agenda.
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Old 10-11-2014, 07:32 PM
  #9419  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Yeah...

My tsquare speaks for me!

Carl
The difference between you and me though is that I matured in my thinking. I was wrong then, and I admit it now. You however.... still don't think on your own. Your doughnut maker thinks for you.
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Old 10-11-2014, 07:33 PM
  #9420  
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Originally Posted by tsquare
The difference between you and me though is that I matured in my thinking. I was wrong then, and I admit it now. You however.... still don't think on your own. Your doughnut maker thinks for you.
Matured in your thinking? Your infraction history begs to differ.
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