Delta Pilots Association
10-08-2014, 11:24 AM
#9271
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
The short answer is because some focus more on our differences than our common goals. Causes of that are difference priorities.
If we were all 45 year old captains still married to our original wives, with 2.5 kids, who lived in base, and had $2-million in our 401(k) account, then only 5 things would divide us (politics, religion, beer preference, CDO's, and whether or not the DH is bad for baseball).
DPA preys on the differences. ALPA focuses on the common goals.
We can find exceptions to those two statements, and that keeps this thread going. Too bad. If Timmy dropped the predatory exploitation of our differences, and accepted the fact that all organizations have flaws that need fixing, I think we could make some progress correcting ALPA's lapses in focus.
"In order to form a more perfect union…" I read that somewhere.
If we were all 45 year old captains still married to our original wives, with 2.5 kids, who lived in base, and had $2-million in our 401(k) account, then only 5 things would divide us (politics, religion, beer preference, CDO's, and whether or not the DH is bad for baseball).
DPA preys on the differences. ALPA focuses on the common goals.
We can find exceptions to those two statements, and that keeps this thread going. Too bad. If Timmy dropped the predatory exploitation of our differences, and accepted the fact that all organizations have flaws that need fixing, I think we could make some progress correcting ALPA's lapses in focus.
"In order to form a more perfect union…" I read that somewhere.
But I thought it was the DPA that is causing the division........
10-08-2014, 11:27 AM
#9272
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
Uh no, I believe ALPA is causing the division all on its own. The other group would not have almost half of our membership signing cards all on its own. Guys don't get me wrong I don't believe the DPA is the answer but ALPA needs to wake up and really begin listening to its members.
10-08-2014, 01:49 PM
#9273
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
No! They are not. They are making inherent differences a rallying cry for replacement of ALPA. The fact that DPA specifically states they don't want to "fix" ALPA, they want to replace ALPA, should lead every pilot to ask the logical follow-up, "When DPA's flaws are identified, should we just replace DPA instead of trying to fix it?"
When I asked Timmy that question face-to-face, he told me, "No", then avoided eye contact with me.
DPA didn't create division. They use it as a weapon instead of a tool.
When I asked Timmy that question face-to-face, he told me, "No", then avoided eye contact with me.
DPA didn't create division. They use it as a weapon instead of a tool.
10-08-2014, 02:16 PM
#9274
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Are you really trying a to suggest a commitment to improvement is exclusive to the founding fathers?
Zero is too much?
Zero is too much?
10-08-2014, 03:14 PM
#9275
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
No! They are not. They are making inherent differences a rallying cry for replacement of ALPA. The fact that DPA specifically states they don't want to "fix" ALPA, they want to replace ALPA, should lead every pilot to ask the logical follow-up, "When DPA's flaws are identified, should we just replace DPA instead of trying to fix it?"
When I asked Timmy that question face-to-face, he told me, "No", then avoided eye contact with me.
DPA didn't create division. They use it as a weapon instead of a tool.
When I asked Timmy that question face-to-face, he told me, "No", then avoided eye contact with me.
DPA didn't create division. They use it as a weapon instead of a tool.
10-08-2014, 03:55 PM
#9276
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
The divisions within ALPA are as much as you choose to make them. We all want a great contract. All. Everyone of us.
You may think that any contract that contains CDO's is not a great contract, while I think they have no bearing on the quality of the contract. That's a division. Should we throw out everything else we both want because of that division?
In the end, we vote. Majority rules. It can be no other way. Do you see it differently?
10-08-2014, 04:05 PM
#9277
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
The short answer is because some focus more on our differences than our common goals. Causes of that are difference priorities.
If we were all 45 year old captains still married to our original wives, with 2.5 kids, who lived in base, and had $2-million in our 401(k) account, then only 5 things would divide us (politics, religion, beer preference, CDO's, and whether or not the DH is bad for baseball).
DPA preys on the differences. ALPA focuses on the common goals.
We can find exceptions to those two statements, and that keeps this thread going. Too bad. If Timmy dropped the predatory exploitation of our differences, and accepted the fact that all organizations have flaws that need fixing, I think we could make some progress correcting ALPA's lapses in focus.
"In order to form a more perfect union…" I read that somewhere.
If we were all 45 year old captains still married to our original wives, with 2.5 kids, who lived in base, and had $2-million in our 401(k) account, then only 5 things would divide us (politics, religion, beer preference, CDO's, and whether or not the DH is bad for baseball).
DPA preys on the differences. ALPA focuses on the common goals.
We can find exceptions to those two statements, and that keeps this thread going. Too bad. If Timmy dropped the predatory exploitation of our differences, and accepted the fact that all organizations have flaws that need fixing, I think we could make some progress correcting ALPA's lapses in focus.
"In order to form a more perfect union…" I read that somewhere.
They are constantly 5 chess moves behind, like Moak on the regionals.
We have all the wind at our backs and we get zero leadership from our MEC chairman and Moak thinks our contract is just fine.
Richard Anderson is ALPA president and MEC chairman.
Let's blame DPA.
We all can type until our fingers bleed, but the fact of the matter is the buck stops at the top. 100% of our problems are Lee Moak's and Mike Donatelli's severe lack of goals and leadership.
Great leaders do not whine and point fingers at others. Perhaps Obama is rubbing off on them.
10-08-2014, 04:09 PM
#9278
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
10-08-2014, 04:14 PM
#9279
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
ALPA lost touch with the line pilots over 20 years ago. It is a big fat blob that stands for nothing and feeds the staff at National.
...
We all can type until our fingers bleed, but the fact of the matter is the buck stops at the top. 100% of our problems are Lee Moak's and Mike Donatelli's severe lack of goals and leadership...
...
We all can type until our fingers bleed, but the fact of the matter is the buck stops at the top. 100% of our problems are Lee Moak's and Mike Donatelli's severe lack of goals and leadership...
Yes as you pointed out in the beginning of your post, ALPA has very clear goals and skilled leadership to meet those goals...
ALPA seems to have become a self serving oligarchy. I don't think they will ever let go of that.
10-08-2014, 04:43 PM
#9280
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: 73 lifer
Posts: 130
That was DPA's opinion and they were entitled to that. My opinion has always been that nobody knows except the FBI because they never talk about investigations.
No, I said others might think that, but nobody knows of their "involvement". You can hand over a bunch of documents and walk away thinking the FBI is "involved", but you're just guessing. They could look at them and take them seriously, or look at them and throw them away. We outsiders don't know.
Yes, I referred to DPA saying there was an investigation. They were assuming that, and that assumption could be right or very wrong.
Carl
No, I said others might think that, but nobody knows of their "involvement". You can hand over a bunch of documents and walk away thinking the FBI is "involved", but you're just guessing. They could look at them and take them seriously, or look at them and throw them away. We outsiders don't know.
Yes, I referred to DPA saying there was an investigation. They were assuming that, and that assumption could be right or very wrong.
Carl
November 18, 2013
We have heard you loud and clear regarding how we should handle the hacking incident. This past Saturday, we turned the investigation over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (IC3) for resolution. Our decision to do this was accelerated by your input and by a phone call from a group of pro-ALPA Delta Pilots claiming to be the hackers.
On Friday, a person claiming to be the hacker called the private residence of the DPA Founder, Tim Caplinger, three times. The caller claimed responsibility for the hack but would not reveal his identity. He claimed to be working with at least one, if not two, other Delta Pilots. His partner had "considerable technical expertise" as he put it. He claimed to have used Tim's personal information to access our account. He claimed to have done the damage from the Starbucks hotspot in the ATL Hilton downtown layover on Friday night, November 8th with a witness/accomplice at his side. He asked for DPA to stop the pursuit and even offered to give Tim money for his "inconvenience" suffered.
Tim refused to accept the money and then offered the hacker one opportunity to reveal his identity and make a public apology. The hacker refused, stating that it would be "professional suicide". DPA will pursue this until the identities of all involved are known and held accountable.
Tim traced the calls and handed the case over to the FBI. How long the FBI investigation will take is unknown.
We have heard you loud and clear regarding how we should handle the hacking incident. This past Saturday, we turned the investigation over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (IC3) for resolution. Our decision to do this was accelerated by your input and by a phone call from a group of pro-ALPA Delta Pilots claiming to be the hackers.
On Friday, a person claiming to be the hacker called the private residence of the DPA Founder, Tim Caplinger, three times. The caller claimed responsibility for the hack but would not reveal his identity. He claimed to be working with at least one, if not two, other Delta Pilots. His partner had "considerable technical expertise" as he put it. He claimed to have used Tim's personal information to access our account. He claimed to have done the damage from the Starbucks hotspot in the ATL Hilton downtown layover on Friday night, November 8th with a witness/accomplice at his side. He asked for DPA to stop the pursuit and even offered to give Tim money for his "inconvenience" suffered.
Tim refused to accept the money and then offered the hacker one opportunity to reveal his identity and make a public apology. The hacker refused, stating that it would be "professional suicide". DPA will pursue this until the identities of all involved are known and held accountable.
Tim traced the calls and handed the case over to the FBI. How long the FBI investigation will take is unknown.
February 28, 2014 Hacking Lawsuit Update
The net is widening as information produced by subpoenas reveals multiple individuals may be involved. New subpoenas have gone out to uncover the next deeper layer of involvement. As new information surfaces, we may be compelled to move from an individual lawsuit to a racketeering lawsuit under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), which is Title IX of the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970.
Be patient with us. This serious matter takes time to address properly. It also takes funds. Please review your total donations to DPA below and consider backing us in this investigation and other campaign initiatives currently under way. Thank you for your support.
The net is widening as information produced by subpoenas reveals multiple individuals may be involved. New subpoenas have gone out to uncover the next deeper layer of involvement. As new information surfaces, we may be compelled to move from an individual lawsuit to a racketeering lawsuit under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO), which is Title IX of the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970.
Be patient with us. This serious matter takes time to address properly. It also takes funds. Please review your total donations to DPA below and consider backing us in this investigation and other campaign initiatives currently under way. Thank you for your support.
May 1, 2014 Website Hacking Update
Both the criminal and civil investigations are making great strides. Thanks to your financial support, we are closing in rapidly on the individual(s) and/or organization responsible for criminally interfering in your legal right to seek new representation. Due to the sensitive nature of the investigations, we cannot discuss the progress other than to say it has been substantial. We will provide more information as it becomes appropriate to do so. Patience pays.
Please keep those donations coming. As we proceed toward a trial, our expenses will increase. Thank you for helping us pursue the justice we deserve.
Both the criminal and civil investigations are making great strides. Thanks to your financial support, we are closing in rapidly on the individual(s) and/or organization responsible for criminally interfering in your legal right to seek new representation. Due to the sensitive nature of the investigations, we cannot discuss the progress other than to say it has been substantial. We will provide more information as it becomes appropriate to do so. Patience pays.
Please keep those donations coming. As we proceed toward a trial, our expenses will increase. Thank you for helping us pursue the justice we deserve.
June 10, 2014 WEBSITE HACKING UPDATE
A lot is going on behind the scenes right now in our pursuit of those who have interfered in our legal right to pursue independent representation. While we cannot publish specifics for legal reasons, here is a summary of what we have accomplished to date in the civil case (the criminal case is being handled by the FBI and DPA has no control over that outcome):
1. Technical Subpoenas have been issued and results have produced valuable evidence.
2. A Forensic Expert has been hired to review the technical evidence.
3. Initial organizational subpoenas have been issued to an organization involved.
4. Initial personal subpoenas will be issued shortly.
The perpetrators of this crime have been somewhat successful in temporarily diverting DPA from our primary goal of establishing DPA as the premier independent pilot union in the world. Our time and finances have been sapped in the defense of our members' right to have a vote.
A lot is going on behind the scenes right now in our pursuit of those who have interfered in our legal right to pursue independent representation. While we cannot publish specifics for legal reasons, here is a summary of what we have accomplished to date in the civil case (the criminal case is being handled by the FBI and DPA has no control over that outcome):
1. Technical Subpoenas have been issued and results have produced valuable evidence.
2. A Forensic Expert has been hired to review the technical evidence.
3. Initial organizational subpoenas have been issued to an organization involved.
4. Initial personal subpoenas will be issued shortly.
The perpetrators of this crime have been somewhat successful in temporarily diverting DPA from our primary goal of establishing DPA as the premier independent pilot union in the world. Our time and finances have been sapped in the defense of our members' right to have a vote.
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