Delta Pilots Association
10-07-2014, 07:27 AM
#9251
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 757/767
Posts: 588
Absent TC dropping the whole thing, I generally agree with what I believe is Carl's sentiment on the current state of the issue though. If the unnamed pilot didn't do anything criminal and a lawsuit is filed, he should fight TC and take him to the cleaners in court while clearing his own name. If the unnamed pilot did do something criminal, he would be better served by seeking a settlement of the issue outside of the courts. If that means apologizing, then do it.
It's no different than the advice that would be given to a fellow pilot who did something boneheaded at work and is getting called in for serious discipline. Be honest and sincere, own it, apologize for it and swear that it'll never happen again. Hat in hand and all.
It's no different than the advice that would be given to a fellow pilot who did something boneheaded at work and is getting called in for serious discipline. Be honest and sincere, own it, apologize for it and swear that it'll never happen again. Hat in hand and all.
If you were the accused hacker and know you've done nothing wrong but were given the "opportunity" to choose between a settlement which forced you to apologize or a trial which was going to cost you no matter the outcome what would you do? That would be a pretty crappy choice.
I have no clue what the facts of this case are but it may be more complex than it appears.
10-07-2014, 07:29 AM
#9252
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Sailingfun said that he just heard participation was within a few points of the survey participation in the last contract. DALPA clearly gave the reason for extending the survey as being due to the participation being too low to provide a valid sample.
If that's "not what is being said at all" then perhaps you'd like to provide us with some other interpretation that I'm apparently not seeing?
10-07-2014, 07:42 AM
#9253
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Don't get your panties in a wad, T. I'm just asking.
Sailingfun said that he just heard participation was within a few points of the survey participation in the last contract. DALPA clearly gave the reason for extending the survey as being due to the participation being too low to provide a valid sample.
If that's "not what is being said at all" then perhaps you'd like to provide us with some other interpretation that I'm apparently not seeing?
Sailingfun said that he just heard participation was within a few points of the survey participation in the last contract. DALPA clearly gave the reason for extending the survey as being due to the participation being too low to provide a valid sample.
If that's "not what is being said at all" then perhaps you'd like to provide us with some other interpretation that I'm apparently not seeing?
10-07-2014, 08:36 AM
#9254
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
My speculation: ALPA wants to see how we rank those areas now, after they've been implemented.
I don't think the survey is as important as the ratification vote, which takes place well after the survey. It's an extreme hypothetical, but would we consider a survey taken prior to 9/11 to be representative of the pilot's priorities AFTER 9/11?
10-07-2014, 10:24 AM
#9255
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,704
Don't get your panties in a wad, T. I'm just asking.
Sailingfun said that he just heard participation was within a few points of the survey participation in the last contract. DALPA clearly gave the reason for extending the survey as being due to the participation being too low to provide a valid sample.
If that's "not what is being said at all" then perhaps you'd like to provide us with some other interpretation that I'm apparently not seeing?
Sailingfun said that he just heard participation was within a few points of the survey participation in the last contract. DALPA clearly gave the reason for extending the survey as being due to the participation being too low to provide a valid sample.
If that's "not what is being said at all" then perhaps you'd like to provide us with some other interpretation that I'm apparently not seeing?
10-08-2014, 05:17 AM
#9257
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
This is only my opinion, but the entire issue certainly seems to be a personal battle for TC. The short time frame that I heard the website was affected has no bearing on the current status of the DPA. It's a drop in the bucket of time in light of the 4 1/2 years this circus has been going on. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it when I play the scenarios out to the end game. Even if:
1. The unnamed pilot were to apologize and make this go away, or
2. A new lawsuit goes forward against an individual pilot and the DPA attorney comes out with a victory and puts a fellow pilot in career jeopardy, or
3. A new lawsuit goes forward against an individual pilot and the individual pilot comes out the other end unscathed.
In none of these scenarios do I see the benefit for TC in the long run. It will do nothing to facilitate the DPA getting a vote and TC will always be "that guy". At this point, I'm not even sure TC dropping the whole thing would change the way he is viewed. This is just another debacle in a 4 1/2 year series of debacles. The only entity that keeps making out through all of this nonsense over the years is the attorney. There's not a facepalm gif big enough.
Absent TC dropping the whole thing, I generally agree with what I believe is Carl's sentiment on the current state of the issue though. If the unnamed pilot didn't do anything criminal and a lawsuit is filed, he should fight TC and take him to the cleaners in court while clearing his own name. If the unnamed pilot did do something criminal, he would be better served by seeking a settlement of the issue outside of the courts. If that means apologizing, then do it.
It's no different than the advice that would be given to a fellow pilot who did something boneheaded at work and is getting called in for serious discipline. Be honest and sincere, own it, apologize for it and swear that it'll never happen again. Hat in hand and all.
1. The unnamed pilot were to apologize and make this go away, or
2. A new lawsuit goes forward against an individual pilot and the DPA attorney comes out with a victory and puts a fellow pilot in career jeopardy, or
3. A new lawsuit goes forward against an individual pilot and the individual pilot comes out the other end unscathed.
In none of these scenarios do I see the benefit for TC in the long run. It will do nothing to facilitate the DPA getting a vote and TC will always be "that guy". At this point, I'm not even sure TC dropping the whole thing would change the way he is viewed. This is just another debacle in a 4 1/2 year series of debacles. The only entity that keeps making out through all of this nonsense over the years is the attorney. There's not a facepalm gif big enough.
Absent TC dropping the whole thing, I generally agree with what I believe is Carl's sentiment on the current state of the issue though. If the unnamed pilot didn't do anything criminal and a lawsuit is filed, he should fight TC and take him to the cleaners in court while clearing his own name. If the unnamed pilot did do something criminal, he would be better served by seeking a settlement of the issue outside of the courts. If that means apologizing, then do it.
It's no different than the advice that would be given to a fellow pilot who did something boneheaded at work and is getting called in for serious discipline. Be honest and sincere, own it, apologize for it and swear that it'll never happen again. Hat in hand and all.
Carl
10-08-2014, 05:24 AM
#9258
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
10-08-2014, 05:32 AM
#9259
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Behave like a real union, and all other challenges to ALPA disappear. ALPA is capable of it...they proved it with C2K and the fight to stop the purchase of Delta by USAirways.
Carl
10-08-2014, 05:42 AM
#9260
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Exactly like they stated. Anytime you show a lack of support in a union it's a weakness to be exploited by the other side. Read their letter if it's still on the website. Both management and labor form expectations going into a contract. A divided pilot group raises managements expectations on what they can achieve and prevent us from getting.
The contract survey is another area that can impact management expectations. If only 30% fill out the survey management will draw conclusions from that. First on the list would be that the pilot group is very content with the current contract and desires little in the way of improvements.
The contract survey is another area that can impact management expectations. If only 30% fill out the survey management will draw conclusions from that. First on the list would be that the pilot group is very content with the current contract and desires little in the way of improvements.
Carl
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