Delta Pilots Association
02-07-2014, 12:30 PM
#9161
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
I HAVE said that... more or less. Maybe it is YOUR reading/comprehension abilities that suck. But I'll spell it out for you. 8 hours.... EXACTLY 8 hours, behind the door does not meet the spirit of the law. Happy?
Now... let me ax you again... What is your number? What do you want to see? Do you want to see it in the contract? Just what in the hell are you after?
And after all this, it still comes back to you being an adult and making the call.
Now... let me ax you again... What is your number? What do you want to see? Do you want to see it in the contract? Just what in the hell are you after?
And after all this, it still comes back to you being an adult and making the call.
Is it the biggest problem we face? Hell no! Does it need to be corrected before one of our pilots relies on bad information put out by DALPA and gets violated? Absolutely.
That is all I'm asking for. I want DALPA to put out something (maybe a Q&A) that addresses this topic and clarifies it to the pilot group so that any misunderstandings that have resulted from bad gouge put out by the scheduling committee chair and at least one rep can be cleared up. I brought it up here because I thought it might help get the word out. It's a side benefit that it also highlights DALPA's (poor, in my opinion) performance in representing us... hence the reason that I brought it up in this thread.
02-07-2014, 12:32 PM
#9162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
I somehow doubt that our rallying cry for C2020 will be SWA +1%...or 5%...or 10%
02-07-2014, 12:32 PM
#9163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
SWA is, and has been in negotiations for a year or so (I believe). Traditionally, they have not seen pay increases on the order of what some on here demand. So... by your numbers, a MD CA is about 7% (+/-) less than a SWA CA. If.... they get what is traditional, somewhere in the neighborhood of a 3% pay increase, that would mean that a MD88 CA would need about 10% to equal them. Would you find that acceptable?
10/3/3/3 ??????????
Just axin' since SWA is the gold standard, you better know where they have been, and where they are going.......
10/3/3/3 ??????????
Just axin' since SWA is the gold standard, you better know where they have been, and where they are going.......
Not that you asked me, but a captain recently did and my reply was 11/5/5/5. Give me Calendar Day Guarantee of 5:00, Avg Daily Credit of 5:30, and bump vacation up .25 hrs a day and I'll take 10/4/4/4. Now multiply all that times 2.x for opening day of negotiations and don't give any scope away and I think we can get 70% on board. Oh, what do I want to give up...errrrr..negotiate with? ALV+30.
02-07-2014, 12:39 PM
#9164
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
So just to be clear, you are saying that in those published stats, the average TFP per month was NOT 105 and/or their actual Captain rate was NOT $186.06 (which results in $234K/year). You are also saying that their average Captain did NOT make over $230K and that their average pilot flew MORE than 12 days per month. SWAPA just made it all up out of thin air to fool the Air Tran guys.
On second thought, maybe you're in the tin foil business. Got any hats?
Last edited by DAL 88 Driver; 02-07-2014 at 12:56 PM.
02-07-2014, 12:54 PM
#9165
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
SWA is, and has been in negotiations for a year or so (I believe). If.... they get what is traditional, somewhere in the neighborhood of a 3% pay increase, that would mean that a MD88 CA would need about 10% to equal them. Would you find that acceptable?
10/3/3/3 ??????????
Just axin' since SWA is the gold standard, you better know where they have been, and where they are going.......
10/3/3/3 ??????????
Just axin' since SWA is the gold standard, you better know where they have been, and where they are going.......
10 is a good start, but that's it.
Your 3/3/3 isn't even keeping up with inflation/COL.
We are wildly profitable. RA banked a 40% increase in take home pay last year.
There is no reason Delta pilots should not be leading the industry. That statement hinges on another one, we get what we negotiate. Looks like Richard clearly did.
Foot note.
SWA Medical
$2852 dollars, for full coverage family of 4, on a PPO plan for 2013.
That's $237 a month, or, $118 per check.
The only upside to being at Delta, medical wise, is that at least we can non rev to India or Bangkok for that hip replacement or new heart valve. Those SWA guys have to buy a zed.
Update the out of pocket later.
Last edited by TheManager; 02-07-2014 at 01:12 PM.
02-07-2014, 12:54 PM
#9166
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Q: Is the 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity specified in FAR 117 exactly the same thing as the "8 hours behind the door" specified in our PWA?
A: No. The FAR is more restrictive and requires that you have an opportunity to get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Exactly 8 hours behind the door does not give any human being the opportunity for 8 hours of sleep.
The FAR also leaves it up to the flightcrew member to determine whether or not he/she has this opportunity. Therefore, it will need to be determined on a case by case basis exactly how much time one needs in order to have this 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity. Specifically, you must spend enough time in the room to get ready for bed, have the opportunity to sleep for 8 hours uninterrupted, and to get ready in the morning after waking up.
02-07-2014, 01:24 PM
#9167
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Here's a proposed Q&A: (I will send this to my reps.)
Q: Is the 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity specified in FAR 117 exactly the same thing as the "8 hours behind the door" specified in our PWA?
A: No. The FAR is more restrictive and requires that you have an opportunity to get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Exactly 8 hours behind the door does not give any human being the opportunity for 8 hours of sleep.
The FAR also leaves it up to the flightcrew member to determine whether or not he/she has this opportunity. Therefore, it will need to be determined on a case by case basis exactly how much time one needs in order to have this 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity. Specifically, you must spend enough time in the room to get ready for bed, have the opportunity to sleep for 8 hours uninterrupted, and to get ready in the morning after waking up.
Q: Is the 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity specified in FAR 117 exactly the same thing as the "8 hours behind the door" specified in our PWA?
A: No. The FAR is more restrictive and requires that you have an opportunity to get 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep. Exactly 8 hours behind the door does not give any human being the opportunity for 8 hours of sleep.
The FAR also leaves it up to the flightcrew member to determine whether or not he/she has this opportunity. Therefore, it will need to be determined on a case by case basis exactly how much time one needs in order to have this 8 hour uninterrupted sleep opportunity. Specifically, you must spend enough time in the room to get ready for bed, have the opportunity to sleep for 8 hours uninterrupted, and to get ready in the morning after waking up.
02-07-2014, 01:27 PM
#9168
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
10/3/3/3. No. Not going to ever get past v1. This would still have us behind the POS '96.
10 is a good start, but that's it.
Your 3/3/3 isn't even keeping up with inflation/COL.
We are wildly profitable. RA banked a 40% increase in take home pay last year.
There is no reason Delta pilots should not be leading the industry. That statement hinges on another one, we get what we negotiate. Looks like Richard clearly did.
Foot note.
SWA Medical
$2852 dollars, for full coverage family of 4, on a PPO plan for 2013.
That's $237 a month, or, $118 per check.
The only upside to being at Delta, medical wise, is that at least we can non rev to India or Bangkok for that hip replacement or new heart valve. Those SWA guys have to buy a zed.
Update the out of pocket later.
10 is a good start, but that's it.
Your 3/3/3 isn't even keeping up with inflation/COL.
We are wildly profitable. RA banked a 40% increase in take home pay last year.
There is no reason Delta pilots should not be leading the industry. That statement hinges on another one, we get what we negotiate. Looks like Richard clearly did.
Foot note.
SWA Medical
$2852 dollars, for full coverage family of 4, on a PPO plan for 2013.
That's $237 a month, or, $118 per check.
The only upside to being at Delta, medical wise, is that at least we can non rev to India or Bangkok for that hip replacement or new heart valve. Those SWA guys have to buy a zed.
Update the out of pocket later.
02-07-2014, 01:43 PM
#9169
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Dude, seriously. I don't think anybody on here disputes any of this. You are still picking fly specks out of pepper, asking for a definition, yet NOT asking for a definition. Are you looking for indemnification? If you decide that it takes you 1.5 to get ready in the morning, do you want dALPA to go to bat for you? "Reasonable" is a lawyer word, and that is one that would fit here.... just like reserve call out. You decide, you make the call. Easy.
02-07-2014, 01:47 PM
#9170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
10/3/3/3. No. Not going to ever get past v1. This would still have us behind the POS '96.
10 is a good start, but that's it.
Your 3/3/3 isn't even keeping up with inflation/COL.
We are wildly profitable. RA banked a 40% increase in take home pay last year.
There is no reason Delta pilots should not be leading the industry. That statement hinges on another one, we get what we negotiate. Looks like Richard clearly did.
Foot note.
SWA Medical
$2852 dollars, for full coverage family of 4, on a PPO plan for 2013.
That's $237 a month, or, $118 per check.
The only upside to being at Delta, medical wise, is that at least we can non rev to India or Bangkok for that hip replacement or new heart valve. Those SWA guys have to buy a zed.
Update the out of pocket later.
10 is a good start, but that's it.
Your 3/3/3 isn't even keeping up with inflation/COL.
We are wildly profitable. RA banked a 40% increase in take home pay last year.
There is no reason Delta pilots should not be leading the industry. That statement hinges on another one, we get what we negotiate. Looks like Richard clearly did.
Foot note.
SWA Medical
$2852 dollars, for full coverage family of 4, on a PPO plan for 2013.
That's $237 a month, or, $118 per check.
The only upside to being at Delta, medical wise, is that at least we can non rev to India or Bangkok for that hip replacement or new heart valve. Those SWA guys have to buy a zed.
Update the out of pocket later.
Anyone know what healthcare goes for in Costa Rica?
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