Delta Pilots Association
02-07-2014, 11:14 AM
#9151
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
No. Your dick measuring contest with your neighbor is irrelevant.
I was asking if anyone could show harm caused by any of the provisions of C2012. My question was in response to the constant forum drumbeat about the concessions we made in that contract--something that I've neither personally felt nor heard about on the line. It's an honest question, and if someone is taking it in the shorts because of ALV+15 or any other provision, I'd like to hear about it.
You'll notice that I covered the "We should have gotten more" argument in a subsequent post.
I was asking if anyone could show harm caused by any of the provisions of C2012. My question was in response to the constant forum drumbeat about the concessions we made in that contract--something that I've neither personally felt nor heard about on the line. It's an honest question, and if someone is taking it in the shorts because of ALV+15 or any other provision, I'd like to hear about it.
You'll notice that I covered the "We should have gotten more" argument in a subsequent post.
Call it a dick measuring contest, whatever you want cowboy. We make less per hour to fly the same plane they do. And, they do it more productively (think better rigs and average day) than we do as well. Straight up. That is a direct reflection of ALPA and their negotiating team.
Here it is, one MORE time!
737
Delta capt. 12 year $210 hour. FO $144
SWA capt. 12 year $216 hour. FO $150
No, but there is more.
They are predominately a 737-700 airline holding 137 in a single class.
Our 88- 90 guys are the real equivalent at Delta
ALPA got them even less. Captain gets $200 and FO gets $136.
But, but, wait!!! There is even MOOOAAR.
Our medical costs and plans have soared! $7,000 out of pocket for my family alone. We hit the max. Yeah, it sucks and not every family does that. But today, if you or anyone on your plan even enters a hospital room, you will hit it. The room alone is 11K a night. That is without meds, professional services, tests, or procedures.
SWA has been successful in their negotiations in keeping all of those costs down. They basically have the same medical we had back in 2001. I personally know a Delta pilot whose spouse works for SWA. They have not touched our medical since then as it has spiraled up in cost away form the SWA plan.
I will return with a side by side comparison. Then tell us again how we should all feel about C12K.
I am not pro DPA. But I find it laughable when an ALPA acolyte starts to push the same old revisionist history $h!t on all of us. Pull your head out of your anal orifice and see this for what it is. Yes, ALPA has been effective, but they are not without failings. Recognize the failings and resolve to correct them.
Oh, you did that already, I suppose. Took a great pilot survey, ignored the results, and claimed a dominant victory at the table and tossed us 4-8-3-3. Ed is laughing at people like you.
Last edited by TheManager; 02-07-2014 at 11:25 AM.
02-07-2014, 12:05 PM
#9153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 440
And just to be clear, your answer is that exactly 8 hours behind the door is in compliance with FAR 117, as long as the flight crew member is okay with it. That is an incorrect interpretation of the FAR. It's also the very same incorrect interpretation being told to pilots by some DALPA officials. That's why it's a big deal.
I agree with your interpretation of what an 8 hour sleep opportunity is, and I don't really care how anyone else interprets it.
02-07-2014, 12:07 PM
#9155
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
At the risk of sounding condescending, I think the point is that at some point you have to put your big boy pants on and make the call...if you decide you haven't received the required rest, call the company and tell them when you will be able to report...end of story.
I agree with your interpretation of what an 8 hour sleep opportunity is, and I don't really care how anyone else interprets it.
I agree with your interpretation of what an 8 hour sleep opportunity is, and I don't really care how anyone else interprets it.
02-07-2014, 12:11 PM
#9156
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Good.
02-07-2014, 12:13 PM
#9157
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
He's been told that exact same thing numerous times. He apparently just wants to blame dALPA for this and all the other ills of the world. Everybody that has weighed in on this has agreed with him that exactly 8 hours behind the door is not practical for meeting the spirit of the law. He will come back around to saying that dALPA reps keep giving him different gouge yet he won't propose a number that would meet that requirement. Good luck trying to convince him.
02-07-2014, 12:15 PM
#9158
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Here it is, one MORE time!
737
Delta capt. 12 year $210 hour. FO $144
SWA capt. 12 year $216 hour. FO $150
No, but there is more.
They are predominately a 737-700 airline holding 137 in a single class.
Our 88- 90 guys are the real equivalent at Delta
ALPA got them even less. Captain gets $200 and FO gets $136.
10/3/3/3 ??????????
Just axin' since SWA is the gold standard, you better know where they have been, and where they are going.......
02-07-2014, 12:20 PM
#9159
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Not true. You are trying to put words in my mouth. Either that or your reading comprehension sucks. And you, Johnso, and the others who keep arguing with me have NOT said that exactly 8 hours behind the door is not practical for meeting the spirit of the law. If you had said that, we wouldn't be arguing about it.
Now... let me ax you again... What is your number? What do you want to see? Do you want to see it in the contract? Just what in the hell are you after?
And after all this, it still comes back to you being an adult and making the call.
02-07-2014, 12:23 PM
#9160
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
SWA is, and has been in negotiations for a year or so (I believe). Traditionally, they have not seen pay increases on the order of what some on here demand. So... by your numbers, a MD CA is about 7% (+/-) less than a SWA CA. If.... they get what is traditional, somewhere in the neighborhood of a 3% pay increase, that would mean that a MD88 CA would need about 10% to equal them. Would you find that acceptable?
10/3/3/3 ??????????
Just axin' since SWA is the gold standard, you better know where they have been, and where they are going.......
10/3/3/3 ??????????
Just axin' since SWA is the gold standard, you better know where they have been, and where they are going.......
Our current MD-88/90 Captain rate is approx $200. At an average of 80 hours/month, that would be $192,000 per year in flight pay. That's 18% below the SWA published stat. AND, I'll bet an 88/90 Captain would be averaging more than 12 days/month (including vacation and sick time) to make 80 hours. The SWA average is 12 days (including vacation and sick time).
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