Elmer Fudd

Save your keystrokes......

Any DPA efforts will be squashed by ALPA NATL.

Plain and simple.

johnso29

I don't need to grow up. You're the one who keeps making a mountain out of a molehill.

I'm guessing that's because they could never provide you with a satisfactory answer. Regardless of what they said.

Alan Shore

Indeed so.

Purple Drank

It's amazing how none of the DALPA insiders have experienced any ill effects of C12; in fact, life has only gotten better for them!

One has to wonder how these guys can possibly consider themselves "in touch" with the pilot group.


Now...back to your regularly scheduled management/DALPA talking points.

CVG767A

I'm near the top of my category, so I haven't felt any of the ill effects of C2012-- only it's improvements. Could someone who has felt those ill effects share their stories? I'm interested in specific, first-person information.

I'm not trying to bait anyone. I just need to understand how people have been harmed by some of the provisions of C2012. If there are things we need to fix, they need to be identified.

For instance, is the company using ALV+15 to screw the domestic guys? If it's happened to you, let's hear it.

Thanks--

DAL 88 Driver

This is ridiculous. We've got prominent DALPA officials putting out information that if relied upon could get someone violated. You don't think anyone listens to what the Chairman of the Scheduling Committee or their Captain rep has to say?

This isn't by any means the most important issue we face. But it's not insignificant either. This should have been a two or three post discussion at most. You are a big part of the reason for all the back and forth. I don't know if you're really that dumb or if you're just trying to provide political cover for DALPA.


Well you've already been proven wrong on that. One of my Captain reps (DH) provided a very satisfactory answer. He agreed with me via email and even called me to discuss it. He was just as concerned about it as I am.

I don't know about the other three reps. I exchanged several emails with them too. One of them initially agreed but then later started trying to walk it back. The other two did basically what you've been doing here... danced all around the issue and avoided directly answering the question.

GunshipGuy

I think the claim of people saying.....sorry, "crying" about assured massive job loss is as accurate as the claim the union said ALV +15 was only intended to allow the use of reserves on international equipment. The outlandish rhetoric on both sides is quite tiring at times.

Dorfman

Purple,

I am not an insider but I have not had any bad side effects. I bid reserve most of the year and with the increase in reserve guarantee, I made substantially more pay in 13 then in 12. I didn't fly to ALV+15 ever nor did I hit ALV at anytime.

What ill effects have you had?

DAL 88 Driver

I'm no fan of C2012. I think it set a very bad precedent that we've accepted bankruptcy as a reset and only expect "reasonable" improvements from that new baseline. C2012 pretty much cemented the idea that restoration is not even a consideration for us.

Other than that (which I consider to be a pretty big negative effect), I can't think of anything else negative. In terms of where we are today with C2012 versus the previous agreement, it's definitely been an improvement for me.

CVG767A

Your complaint seems to be the only one that I hear-- that we didn't take a big enough bite at the apple. While I was less than happy with the raises we got, I voted yes only because of the short duration of the contract. We're about to negotiate another contract, and I hope to accelerate the gains we've made.

That being said, I've yet to hear any first-person stories of the ill effects of C2012. While I usually fly with pretty senior FOs, I do see many reserve guys, too. So far, no complaints from any of them.

On many of my trips lately, we're celebrating one of the FO's final month of European layovers before he heads to training for the left seat of a narrow body. While we can debate whether the 717s would have been purchased absent the latest contract, the fact remains that they're causing some long awaited movement.