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Old 12-13-2013, 08:02 AM
  #8931  
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Originally Posted by NWA320pilot
I'm with you FIIGMO...... As long as the one voice isn't ALPA!
Then tell Timmy to call for the vote, and let's get it on.
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Old 12-13-2013, 08:26 AM
  #8932  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
Exactly. I'm not interested in getting behind a "voice" that believes bankruptcy was a reset and that we cannot restore our profession and our careers.
Just remember, management is selling it as a permanent reset, and for that matter, so are the Moak disciples. Stay humble. Don't get greedy. This tidbit is from the investors day conference.



"We also understand the importance of keeping all of our people together and investing in our people and in that labor and in the success that drives the improvements that you've seen in the business. This is not a company that still has any debts to pay, bills coming due on the labor front. We are current, everything's in our run rate, and we expect from here just continued outperformance as we look forward."

-Edward H. Bastian, President and Director, Delta Air Lines,
Annual Investor Day Conference-December 11, 2013
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:11 AM
  #8933  
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Originally Posted by TheManager
Just remember, management is selling it as a permanent reset, and for that matter, so are the Moak disciples. Stay humble. Don't get greedy. This tidbit is from the investors day conference.



"We also understand the importance of keeping all of our people together and investing in our people and in that labor and in the success that drives the improvements that you've seen in the business. This is not a company that still has any debts to pay, bills coming due on the labor front. We are current, everything's in our run rate, and we expect from here just continued outperformance as we look forward."

-Edward H. Bastian, President and Director, Delta Air Lines,
Annual Investor Day Conference-December 11, 2013
Exactly my problem with DALPA. Since the day Delta came out of bankruptcy, DALPA has been acting like this is just the "new normal" and that there is no expectation to ever restore our profession and our careers. Why WOULD management expect anything different? REALLY dumb strategy... IF the objective is restoration (which it's not with DALPA).
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:42 PM
  #8934  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler


No, you've chosen the tried and true Saul Alinsky method of painting your opponents as nut case conspiracy theorists rather than debate facts. You do that because you're emotionally driven as opposed to logic driven.

Carl

Hello kettle.......
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:50 PM
  #8935  
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So, how much did that billboard cost? Today, I had to look for it, on the right hand side of northbound I85 right after the Peachtree City exit. The lettering is so small you can't read it.
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:57 PM
  #8936  
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Originally Posted by Splash
Not so. I've listed my reasons for my conclusion that ALPA is a better choice for representation than DPA. My theory is that many DPA supporters, such as yourself, have difficulty with the fact that they are usually in the minority on major decisions facing the pilots. The conspiracy part comes into play when National or the organization itself is blamed for decisions the pilot group makes, that you don't support.
That's not what you did Splash. You're trying to walk it back now, but this is what you did to start this little dust-up:

Originally Posted by Splash
You BELIEVE we are run by National.
You BELIEVE TWA 800 was shot down.
You BELIEVE the moon landings were faked.
You BELIEVE there was a shooter on the Grassy Knoll.
You BELIEVE 9/11 was a government plot.
That was nothing but pure left-wing Saul Alinsky tactics to make your opponent look too nutty to even take seriously.

Carl
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:10 PM
  #8937  
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Originally Posted by Splash
Those, my friend, are theories. Here are a few more. Some voted no because there was no deadline, so it was impossible to have gotten every penny we wanted from the company. Some voted no because that's all they EVER do. Some voted no because they hate ALPA and wanted to see failure. Some voted no because they are bad at math. Some voted no because rabid no voters misled them.
Those are plausible theories on the NO side. The difference between you and me is, I don't take those theories to extrapolate a result that says those NO voters prove most pilots support ALPA because they were only 38%.

Originally Posted by Splash
ALPA paid for reps to publish their perspectives, and to work the lounges to support the position they took on the TA at the MEC level. Our reps voted no, and told us why. So when you flame ALPA about "selling" the TA, please tell Tucker and Smetana you never read their stuff.
Again, you purposely distort by trying to equate local communication efforts with an MEC administration sales job that went out to all pilots both live and in print. There is no question DALPA sold that TA with everything they had including blatant scare tactics normally reserved for management's use.

Originally Posted by Splash
I'm amazed at those who characterize other pilots as extremists without considering using that label on themselves.
Give me an example of when I called you or anyone else an extremist.

Originally Posted by Splash
Rather than argue about the definition of the word "significant", can we agree that the actual number of valid cards should not be a secret?
The actual number of valid cards is not a secret. It's right around 5,500 active cards with around 200 that have expired. It's on the website.

Carl
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:57 PM
  #8938  
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How's that FBI investigation going?
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:19 PM
  #8939  
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Originally Posted by 76drvr
How's that FBI investigation going?
First, the FBI never talks about investigations unless or until there are indictments. Second, it took a number of years between the TWA pilots' allegations against ALPA and the jury's verdict against ALPA.

Give it time.

Carl
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Old 12-13-2013, 06:49 PM
  #8940  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Those are plausible theories on the NO side. The difference between you and me is, I don't take those theories to extrapolate a result that says those NO voters prove most pilots support ALPA because they were only 38%.
We'll need to extrapolate something because DPA has done nothing. They have no record to defend. They have no work product for pilots to approve or reject. Their published process for negotiating a contract for us is purely theoretical. A year and a half ago all of us got to pass judgement on the product ALPA delivered. The judgement took place during the organizing drive of DPA.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Again, you purposely distort by trying to equate local communication efforts with an MEC administration sales job that went out to all pilots both live and in print. There is no question DALPA sold that TA with everything they had including blatant scare tactics normally reserved for management's use.
Let me get this straight. Are you saying Delta pilots are too stupid or disinterested to read and comprehend the opinions and perspectives of the the pilots they elect to represent them? Let's just use you as an example. Did you pay attention to the recommendation and logic behind it we heard from our reps?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Give me an example of when I called you or anyone else an extremist.
That would be in this post, using a term you've repeated. "ALPA no matter what".

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
The actual number of valid cards is not a secret. It's right around 5,500 active cards with around 200 that have expired.
Prove it.
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