Delta Pilots Association
12-12-2013, 06:58 AM
#8921
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
But is it not true that the bottom line measure for evaluating pay is how much one has to work versus how much one makes? Certainly, there are other considerations as to the desirability of a job. But if you're looking at pay, it's really a pretty straight forward comparison. It's when smoke and mirrors get involved that it gets difficult (and misleading). And THAT, my friends, is what we got from DALPA with their "contract comparison" last year.
You cannot look at DALPA's "converted" SWA rate of $216 and compare it with our 2015 737 rate of $215 and then draw the conclusion that we're essentially equal. The reality of it (i.e. W2) is WAY different. We're still getting smoked... by pilots who work for a company that, while it has great efficiencies built into its business model, it doesn't have anything like the revenue and profit potential of Delta Air Lines.
What you really have to ask yourself is "why?" Why did DALPA intentionally mislead the pilot group like that? You know they are smart enough to understand the reality. So why?
12-12-2013, 11:15 AM
#8922
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Not to add to your headache...
But is it not true that the bottom line measure for evaluating pay is how much one has to work versus how much one makes? Certainly, there are other considerations as to the desirability of a job. But if you're looking at pay, it's really a pretty straight forward comparison. It's when smoke and mirrors get involved that it gets difficult (and misleading). And THAT, my friends, is what we got from DALPA with their "contract comparison" last year.
You cannot look at DALPA's "converted" SWA rate of $216 and compare it with our 2015 737 rate of $215 and then draw the conclusion that we're essentially equal. The reality of it (i.e. W2) is WAY different. We're still getting smoked... by pilots who work for a company that, while it has great efficiencies built into its business model, it doesn't have anything like the revenue and profit potential of Delta Air Lines.
What you really have to ask yourself is "why?" Why did DALPA intentionally mislead the pilot group like that? You know they are smart enough to understand the reality. So why?
But is it not true that the bottom line measure for evaluating pay is how much one has to work versus how much one makes? Certainly, there are other considerations as to the desirability of a job. But if you're looking at pay, it's really a pretty straight forward comparison. It's when smoke and mirrors get involved that it gets difficult (and misleading). And THAT, my friends, is what we got from DALPA with their "contract comparison" last year.
You cannot look at DALPA's "converted" SWA rate of $216 and compare it with our 2015 737 rate of $215 and then draw the conclusion that we're essentially equal. The reality of it (i.e. W2) is WAY different. We're still getting smoked... by pilots who work for a company that, while it has great efficiencies built into its business model, it doesn't have anything like the revenue and profit potential of Delta Air Lines.
What you really have to ask yourself is "why?" Why did DALPA intentionally mislead the pilot group like that? You know they are smart enough to understand the reality. So why?
Carl
12-12-2013, 01:06 PM
#8923
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
Not to add to your headache...
But is it not true that the bottom line measure for evaluating pay is how much one has to work versus how much one makes? Certainly, there are other considerations as to the desirability of a job. But if you're looking at pay, it's really a pretty straight forward comparison. It's when smoke and mirrors get involved that it gets difficult (and misleading). And THAT, my friends, is what we got from DALPA with their "contract comparison" last year.
You cannot look at DALPA's "converted" SWA rate of $216 and compare it with our 2015 737 rate of $215 and then draw the conclusion that we're essentially equal. The reality of it (i.e. W2) is WAY different. We're still getting smoked... by pilots who work for a company that, while it has great efficiencies built into its business model, it doesn't have anything like the revenue and profit potential of Delta Air Lines.
What you really have to ask yourself is "why?" Why did DALPA intentionally mislead the pilot group like that? You know they are smart enough to understand the reality. So why?
But is it not true that the bottom line measure for evaluating pay is how much one has to work versus how much one makes? Certainly, there are other considerations as to the desirability of a job. But if you're looking at pay, it's really a pretty straight forward comparison. It's when smoke and mirrors get involved that it gets difficult (and misleading). And THAT, my friends, is what we got from DALPA with their "contract comparison" last year.
You cannot look at DALPA's "converted" SWA rate of $216 and compare it with our 2015 737 rate of $215 and then draw the conclusion that we're essentially equal. The reality of it (i.e. W2) is WAY different. We're still getting smoked... by pilots who work for a company that, while it has great efficiencies built into its business model, it doesn't have anything like the revenue and profit potential of Delta Air Lines.
What you really have to ask yourself is "why?" Why did DALPA intentionally mislead the pilot group like that? You know they are smart enough to understand the reality. So why?
12-12-2013, 02:22 PM
#8924
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
First, regardless of your theoretical separation between opinions and votes, tallying the votes is the only way a democratic organization such as a pilot union can accurately determine the membership's view on Yes or No issues. If there is another way to do it, I'm open to your suggestions. If the union must follow the will of the majority of its members, how is that determined?
It's absolutely amazing that the "ALPA no matter what" guys like you try to claim that a 62% vote FOR the TA was a vote of confidence in DALPA.
Second, I dispute the percentages. I don't think DPA has valid cards from 50% of the pilot group. The burden of proof lies with them, and so far, all they are doing is SAYING they have 50%. Here's an analogy. I SAY there's no influence by National on the Delta MEC, and you don't believe it. You SAY DPA has 50%, and I don't believe it.
Carl
12-12-2013, 05:37 PM
#8925
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
12-12-2013, 06:05 PM
#8926
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: Boeing Boss
Posts: 335
The separation between votes and opinions is not theoretical. Some TA yes voters voted yes because it represented the best contract they'd ever seen in their careers. While other yes voters despised the concessions in the TA, but voted yes because of the fear and threats put out by DALPA. Same votes, but totally different opinions.
ALPA paid for reps to publish their perspectives, and to work the lounges to support the position they took on the TA at the MEC level. Our reps voted no, and told us why. So when you flame ALPA about "selling" the TA, please tell Tucker and Smetana you never read their stuff.
Rather than argue about the definition of the word "significant", can we agree that the actual number of valid cards should not be a secret?
12-13-2013, 06:52 AM
#8927
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
I may be on NBC sick but I ain't dead
Day 22 when is the DPA vote.....
I'd like to get behind one voice before openers, anyone else?
Not that anyone noticed! Feels like home though!
(Except Denny who bought beers and lunch! Thanks buddy!)
I'd like to get behind one voice before openers, anyone else?
Not that anyone noticed! Feels like home though!
(Except Denny who bought beers and lunch! Thanks buddy!)
12-13-2013, 06:56 AM
#8928
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
12-13-2013, 07:16 AM
#8929
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Hope you're getting better.
12-13-2013, 07:16 AM
#8930
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
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