Purple Drank

This must be one of DALPA's new talking points. You are the second guy to try to spin the ADP as a "win," which is pathetic.

My question is, why are you satisfied with that--and even bragging about it? Why isn't the avg daily guarantee 5:15 (or more)? And why isn't the trip worth the same for a reserve AND regular pilot?

This was another failure in the negotiating arena, pure and simple.

You all would save everyone a lot of time if one of you just cut-and-pasted DALPA's talking points here, and all of the other ALPA waterboys responded with "+1" or "Great post."

scambo1

For the real Ho's in my category, reserve is what you bid when you are approaching being timed out for the year. They get paid, but cant be used except for SC or an LA turn.

I intersperse reserve through the year depending upon what I am trying to accomplish, either at or away from work. I keeps a comfortable buffer so I never get close to timing out.

BTW, I am pretty convinced that DAL's tracking software doesn't count GS's for FAR maximum purposes.

tsquare

That's a bit of a drift though. The point is that PD was painting with the usual broad brush, and for some... it just doesn't wash, meaning that it is not necessarily the blanket concession to QOL that he purports it to be. You are right, that it depends on how much you want to work.. but you are not necessarily forced to.

Herkflyr

Believe it or not, I mostly agree with you. What I am trying to see, on the optimistic side, is that we have taken care of many many smaller things while getting COLA+1% pay raises--or "very partial pay recovery" if that sounds more accurate to you. I hope that we can then focus all of our negotiating strength on the next contract almost exclusively on pay issues.

I disagree with a lot of what you say, and I am not a DPA supporter. That said, every time I read Steve Dickson lecturing us to "stay humble" I understand the anger out there.

Carl Spackler

I don't mean to sound like a smart a$$ here Herk, but we've often been told by the ALPA folks around here that "hope is not a strategy." They are correct. So what is the strategy? Will DALPA wait to tell us the strategy until after a new survey of pilots is complete? After the survey is complete, will DALPA tell us nothing of the strategy so as to "not show your hand at the poker table? Will DALPA tell us to trust them on the strategy? And if TA2015 is more COLA pay raises funded with concessions in other areas, but DALPA says this is all management will give and "you don't even want to think about what management's plan B is if you vote NO on this...", what then? Will you realize that Lucy once again pulled the football away? Will we all just "hope" for C2018?



That's cool. Civilized debate is always good.

Carl

TheManager

Originally Posted by finis72
A little side bet, betcha with that " massive " pay raise they don't make it to our level, I hope they way surpass us but I don't believe they will.



Ok, here you go finis:

THE USAIRWAYS MERGER TRANSITION AGREEMENT

Effective on the the date of P.O.R. Which is 12/9/13.

First, some work rules.

This agreement provides for a 1:2 for sit times in excess of two hours.

Distance learning: 50% of hourly rate.
Training: 4:00 per day. (Delta 3:45)

Defined contribution: Currently 14%
January 2014: 16%
Delta: 15%

Sick:
5 hours accrued per month
60 short term banked
940 long terms bank
1000 total and with rollover.
Allowed to sell back.

Rapid re-accrual of 7.5 hrs if out more than 30 days
United has 7hrs
Delta no rapid re-accrual, no rollover, no sell back and capped at 270 max.

Home basing in cities that support it.

COMPENSATION: All 12 year rates. 777 rates reflect group 4 which include 777, 767-4, 787, 340.

Next week on POR, the first raise.
A320 capt. 167.68. F/O 114.02
B777 capt. 213.02. F/O 144.00

January 2014. 8% increase.

A320 capt. 181.00. F/O 123.14
B777 capt. 230.06. F/O 156.44

January 2015. 3% increase.

A320 capt. 186.53. F/O 236.06
B777 capt. 236.00. F/O 161.00

January 2016. 16.5% increase.

A320 capt. 217.24. F/O 147.72
B777 capt. 275.98. F/O 187.67

If needed, on January 2017 a 3.5% increase. On January 2018, a 3.5% increase.

Why if needed you might ask? Here is the rest of the story.

From the MTA:

"MTA provides parity review that compares DAL and UAL as of January 1, 2016. The parity review will use the average of the DAL and UAL pay rates of the A320 and the 737-800 aircraft weighted for the ASM's flown by each airline."

The other groups will be adjusted from there.

Now, when the APA (USAPA will be offered a seat at the table along with the west pilots) negotiates their JCBA, these numbers can change. Likely up, not expecting down.

Other considerations. AMR pilots getting near $100k each from their portion of the company on exit/merger. Frozen DB plans.

LCC pilots portion of merger bonus 10-15k.

I will let you all discuss this without adding my own commentary.

Decide for yourselves how well the APA and USAPA guys did.
You all can do the math. Particularly on the wide body from 2016 on.

Someone is going to as about overtime

Premium pay is here:

. Premium Pay
1. In accordance with Section 15.L., the Company may designate at any time any sequence as
a premium pay sequence. Such sequence(s) willpay a premium of fifty percent (50%) over
the pilot's base hourly pay rate as specified in Section 3 (total is the base rate plus fifty
percent of the base rate), including international override as applicable.
2. Premium pay may be applied to an entire sequence, or portion of a sequence, as applicable
in the Agreement.
3. A sequence picked-up from open time (TTS) which is designated as a premium pay
sequence will have the fifty percent (50%) premium applied to all flown hours including any
Pay and Credit in the sequence. A pilot pay protected for a premium pay sequence who is
assigned replacement flying willbe pay protected for the value of a cancelled premium
sequence at the premium rate. In the event the credited time of the replacement flying is
greater than the credited value of the cancelled flying, the pilot will be paid for the additional
time at the regular hourly rate.
Example: If the credited value of the cancelled sequence is 8 hours, the pilot will be pay
protected for 12 hours. If the credited time of the replacement flying is 10 hours, the pilot will
be paid an additional 2 hours at the regular hourly rate, for a total of 14 hours.
4. A pilot awarded or assigned a premium pay sequence will be pay protected for the scheduled
value of the sequence, including the fifty percent (50%) premium.
5. A premium pay sequence that is traded to another pilot will have the premium designation
removed and such sequence will be paid at the base hourly pay rate.
6. Premium pay will not apply in the event a pilot does not operate the premium sequence due
to any voluntary action by the pilot, i.e calling in sick, fatigued, drops or trades the sequence
to another pilot. Premium pay will apply in the event a pilot does not operate the premium
sequence due to Company actions such as a reassignment, displacement, or any other
Company-enacted removal. Premium pay will apply to any removal that qualifies for
Sequence Protection as described in Section 4.C.
7. Recovery obligation replacement flyingdue to sequence cancellation and reserve
assignments will be paid at regular hourly pay rates. Premium pay does not apply to such
assignments.
8. Premium hours flown in the same month that a pilot uses sick leave will be offset by the
number of sick hours charged. Any remaining premium hours after the offset is applied will be
paid at the premium rate.
Example: A pilot uses sick leave for a 10 hours during the month. In the same month, the pilot
picks up 12 hours of premium sequence(s) (12 hours credit, 18 hours pay). For the purpose
of calculating the net premium pay for the month, subtract the total sick hours used from the
total premium hours. In this example the pilot’s premium pay for the month will be the 12
hours of premium sequence(s) reduced by the 10 sick hours used, leaving 2 hours to be paid
at 1.5 X, for a total of 1 hour additional pay (13 hours total pay for the premium sequence(s).
9. Premium hours flown will be uncredited towards a pilot's IMAX, but will be applied towards
FAR limitations. The pilot's PPROJ will be adjusted to include the fifty percent (50%)
premium.
10. Reassignment - if a pilot is reassigned outside the footprint of the pilot's original sequence,
the fifty percent (50%) premium is pay only. The pilot will be credited with the greater of
scheduled or what was actually flown. The premium does not apply to any additional credits
under 15.E., 15.F. or 15.Gthat were generated solely as a result of the reassignment

finis72

Manager, thanks, that's a bet I don't mind losing but: their big pay raise comes in 2016 when our contract is amenable, until that time they are significantly below our rates. In other words on just pay even if we got no raise in 2016 I would make more total in the 3 years, 2014,15&16 then the USAPA pilot ( I'm sure the USAPA guys will be on the 777 soon, NOT ). You know, the time value of money thing.
I do appreciate your work on posting that and no matter who represents us it bodes well for our pilot group, pattern bargaining at it's best.

Starcheck102

Mine too, and I will get to that...

But you don't think that putting all DCI flying on our list at C2012 rates of pay would be too expensive? I see a huge competitive disadvantage in a section of our business that already suffers from high CASM.

How do you benefit from it? The cost of your proposal should justify whatever you specifically get out of it. How does a 7ER B benefit from your proposal?

I would prefer to see an extension of the last strategy, DCI going from 450 hulls down to 225 or less, with DAL mainline getting a hundred or so Bombardier CSeries jets. Shrink DCI, grow mainline, but do it with a scalpel and not a maul.

76 is still a line in the sand for me, and woe betide anyone who dares to cross it. I am still frosty that it got over 70; the cost didn't justify the benefit.

When I made my research into the E170/E190/E195/900 pay rates, I also wondered about the groupings in the PWA. I have no idea why they are organized that way; I think it is a holdover from the 2000 contract when those rates were initially negotiated, as a backstop to the scope allowances traded for pay in that contract.

Carl Spackler

First of all, the 777 is banded with the 787, 767-4, and 340.

Second, how about those work rules? You might be right that our pay RATES are better, but our work rules SUCK in comparison to what USAirways pilots will have. How's that for the pilots of the most profitable and best run airline finis?

When in the hell is this pilot group going to stand up for itself.

Carl

Elmer Fudd

I keep asking the same question. I will pay almost $4000.00 in ALPA dues this year. I cancelled the magazine years ago, so what am I getting for my money? If I stay here 11 more years, that's almost $50,000.00 in ALPA dues. And that's if I don't get a raise, move to a higher paying aircraft, etc.

When are we going to stand up and demand some extra coin, especially when the Company is making big profits? Just what exactly do our dues afford us?

I'm not anti-ALPA, I just want some ROI for my money. If they can't do it, let's find someone who can......or cut my dues in half.