Delta Pilots Association
11-27-2013, 09:19 AM
#8651
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't you supposed to be voting first and foremost in the interests of ATL FOs?
11-27-2013, 09:19 AM
#8652
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl,
You don't know anything about this vote. I've laid some objective facts out here, you've ignored them while providing no facts of your own. Stating someone "caved" when all the Reps in C44 were under similar threats from both sides means nothing. They did their job. It was a difficult job. None of them seemed to care about the politics. The common thread I heard was, "what is best for the Delta pilots going forward."
You don't know anything about this vote. I've laid some objective facts out here, you've ignored them while providing no facts of your own. Stating someone "caved" when all the Reps in C44 were under similar threats from both sides means nothing. They did their job. It was a difficult job. None of them seemed to care about the politics. The common thread I heard was, "what is best for the Delta pilots going forward."
Carl
11-27-2013, 09:26 AM
#8653
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 474
Actually, he was elected by the C44 pilots, both captain and first officers. He ran to represent all those pilots, not just any one particular demographic or special interest group. At least I don't recall getting campaign letters from any candidate stating otherwise.
11-27-2013, 09:29 AM
#8654
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I am glad you are very clear on your support for reps that think independently. Doing so does mean that on some votes and issues they will not be voting the way they want you to. That's a fact.
As for what my positions are on issues, its simple. I am honest enough with myself that when I come across a better perspective or more facts or hard data that can change my vote or previous position that I had absent those tidbits, I will, if it is aligned with the guiding questions I use to make my decisions. Its called a process, and prepositioning ones self on how you will vote based solely on politics is not a recipe for success for this pilot group. There is a time for politics in union work but judging performance and ability to perform going forward is not one of them.
As for a morphing that you assert, if it is about restoration I think you will recall I said it would take at least two negotiating cycles, and it will. I also believe that timing of words from leadership has to be well placed and be more strategic so that the change in tone can be converted. If that irritates you or makes you lose faith, so be it.
I will tell you one thing, from a personal point of view, saying how you will do it from without being accountable is easy, having your decisions or lack of decisions and accountability affect 12,000 pilots and their families makes one take a very deliberate approach on how they conduct themselves and approach each decision. You must be smart and cannot just fight to fight. A rep has one vote, and his or her job is to get consensus of the 19 voting reps even if they cannot get everything they want. That is the hard part of leading and something a Rep or any leader must learn really quickly if they want to affect any change.
As for what my positions are on issues, its simple. I am honest enough with myself that when I come across a better perspective or more facts or hard data that can change my vote or previous position that I had absent those tidbits, I will, if it is aligned with the guiding questions I use to make my decisions. Its called a process, and prepositioning ones self on how you will vote based solely on politics is not a recipe for success for this pilot group. There is a time for politics in union work but judging performance and ability to perform going forward is not one of them.
As for a morphing that you assert, if it is about restoration I think you will recall I said it would take at least two negotiating cycles, and it will. I also believe that timing of words from leadership has to be well placed and be more strategic so that the change in tone can be converted. If that irritates you or makes you lose faith, so be it.
I will tell you one thing, from a personal point of view, saying how you will do it from without being accountable is easy, having your decisions or lack of decisions and accountability affect 12,000 pilots and their families makes one take a very deliberate approach on how they conduct themselves and approach each decision. You must be smart and cannot just fight to fight. A rep has one vote, and his or her job is to get consensus of the 19 voting reps even if they cannot get everything they want. That is the hard part of leading and something a Rep or any leader must learn really quickly if they want to affect any change.
You also voted to show any new MEC chairman that his/her elections means that he/she MUST keep the Moak dinosaurs happy or you will vote to remove him/her. What kind of a message is that to send to the new chairman?
You really blew it acl. You not only made a bad decision, but you turned your back on the more junior constituency who voted for you to reform DALPA.
Carl
11-27-2013, 09:34 AM
#8655
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
My point to those questions is; are you certain it has not been discussed again since it was removed?
I have no issue with a pro con paper but there are concerns with them, I respect that and believe that if you can address those concerns you may get a product that is good for the pilots and argues a point counter point more succinctly.
I have no issue with a pro con paper but there are concerns with them, I respect that and believe that if you can address those concerns you may get a product that is good for the pilots and argues a point counter point more succinctly.
That's exactly what extremely slippery politicians do. Case study right here.
Carl
11-27-2013, 10:03 AM
#8656
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Whatever. The progression was from
Some thought had some Reps signed one letter rather than the other that the Chairman would have resigned and saved the MEC the trouble. I don't know if that was the case. As Slowplay pointed out he wanted a hearing.
Meanwhile everyone assumed to know ACL's vote by virtue of his signing the "other letter." They were wrong. Once everyone communicated effectively they realized they were in agreement.
Again, a group of smart people can look at the same set of facts from different perspectives and reach an equally correct conclusion.
If a change among important Committee Chairs was desired, it could be done in an orderly coordinated fashion which sought consensus. The Chairman firing (was it 5?) then rehiring 1, ALPA missing a couple of meetings with management because of the firing of the person(s) who were prepared for attendance was too great an unstabilizing force. ore to the point, the consensus appears that those who got fired have been doing great work for the Delta pilots ... so when you wash that out ...
You want the Delta MEC to fail and the DPA to replace them. Not sure why I'm trying to illustrate to you how the D-MEC fixed it's stuff. You will never agree to anything which makes your MEC look like the intelligent men they are.
- Undecided
- Lets get the facts
- Facts were revealed
- Decided
Some thought had some Reps signed one letter rather than the other that the Chairman would have resigned and saved the MEC the trouble. I don't know if that was the case. As Slowplay pointed out he wanted a hearing.
Meanwhile everyone assumed to know ACL's vote by virtue of his signing the "other letter." They were wrong. Once everyone communicated effectively they realized they were in agreement.
Again, a group of smart people can look at the same set of facts from different perspectives and reach an equally correct conclusion.
If a change among important Committee Chairs was desired, it could be done in an orderly coordinated fashion which sought consensus. The Chairman firing (was it 5?) then rehiring 1, ALPA missing a couple of meetings with management because of the firing of the person(s) who were prepared for attendance was too great an unstabilizing force. ore to the point, the consensus appears that those who got fired have been doing great work for the Delta pilots ... so when you wash that out ...
You want the Delta MEC to fail and the DPA to replace them. Not sure why I'm trying to illustrate to you how the D-MEC fixed it's stuff. You will never agree to anything which makes your MEC look like the intelligent men they are.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 11-27-2013 at 10:17 AM.
11-27-2013, 10:20 AM
#8657
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
11-27-2013, 11:03 AM
#8658
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
I propose a cease fire in our constant sniping at each other over DPA vs DALPA. It will start this evening and go through last football game tomorrow. Under boob, cheer leaders, cartoons, cool aviation stuff is allowed, anything else gets you "Tool of the day" award.
I will start by wishing Carl,Manager,PD,88, and all my APC buds on either side of the issue a very Happy Thanksgiving and hope y'all get to spend it with family and friends.
We can continue our arguments after the cease fire. What say you ?
I will start by wishing Carl,Manager,PD,88, and all my APC buds on either side of the issue a very Happy Thanksgiving and hope y'all get to spend it with family and friends.
We can continue our arguments after the cease fire. What say you ?
11-27-2013, 11:14 AM
#8659
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I propose a cease fire in our constant sniping at each other over DPA vs DALPA. It will start this evening and go through last football game tomorrow. Under boob, cheer leaders, cartoons, cool aviation stuff is allowed, anything else gets you "Tool of the day" award.
I will start by wishing Carl,Manager,PD,88, and all my APC buds on either side of the issue a very Happy Thanksgiving and hope y'all get to spend it with family and friends.
We can continue our arguments after the cease fire. What say you ?
I will start by wishing Carl,Manager,PD,88, and all my APC buds on either side of the issue a very Happy Thanksgiving and hope y'all get to spend it with family and friends.
We can continue our arguments after the cease fire. What say you ?
Carl
11-27-2013, 11:20 AM
#8660
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Go back and read it again. You have every right to attack elected reps. You can call them names, question their character, and criticize their choices. No argument here. But just like the DPA has no record to defend, you don't have one either. I think that's telling, too.
Complete nonsense.
Carl
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