Carl Spackler

Great example of DALPA's most slippery representative. Notice the mocking of even the desire to obtain the buying power of a decade ago? More importantly, notice the mocking of pensions by trying to make you believe that the only choice is to put a pension back into the hands of those who terminated them. A complete straw man argument as there are other ways to give retirement security without handing them back to the company and ALPA. Slippery.

No it doesn't. It's just another slippery way by you DALPA reps to lower expectations.

That's not just slippery, that's just slimey. First, NWA was unlucky in that we were not up to pattern above DAL and UAL until after 9/11. That's why our rates were lower. Second, we had significantly better work rules in other areas that moderated the differences in pay rates. Regardless, this a stupid and divisive comment by someone who should no better.

I'll tell you acl, you have been nothing but a disappointment from the first post I've read of yours. Always politically speaking from all sides of the mouth and duplicitous. The ultimate politician. Getting elected has only made you worse.

Carl

Carl Spackler

We had just as strong an environment for C2012 and you did nothing but parrot the DALPA party line of taking the first offer before Section 6 even began. You'll do the exact same thing for C2015/2016. I'm sure you're helping DALPA write the excuse now as to why we could only get more COLA raises and make the RJ experiment healthier for management. You will advocate for the weakest position...absolutely guaranteed.

More slippery double talk. How about saying: "Given where we are now, it's time discuss leading the US airline industry in every measurable contractual metric?"

Carl

Purple Drank

Even if there is no DPA vote, I will most certainly continue to demand accountability and performance--both of which have been sorely lacking--from "our" "union."

Will you?

tsquare

Even more so, because of the promises they have made, either actual or implied...

Splash

I'm not trying to compare them any more than they NEED to be compared. The common denominator here is the pilot group. Your conclusion is that the Delta pilot group can be manipulated. You're telling us that we can't tell a good deal from a bad one.

There's another possibility, you know. It's possible that the pilot group chooses wisely. Maybe you've been on the losing side of the choices we've made as a group? Maybe not.

I'm wary of people who need to convince us that we're collectively gullible to make their case for new representation.

Splash

Can you post your voting record?

I'm interested in seeing all of the times you've served your pilot group, and what specific positions you've taken on the tough choices. Are there any actions you made as a rep that you regret?

Seaslap8

It appears to be neither slippery, nor slimey...just an observation (and a fairly accurate one). There seems to be this DPA thought process that DALPA is feckless and weak and that we just need a real union with real balls to lead us back to full restoration...your track record is lacking however...you say "unlucky", but whatever the reason, the fact is you never achieved what DALPA achieved...

Carl Spackler

People make choices based on information. DALPA ensures nearly total control over the information and their purposeful disinformation. When pilots see they made a vote based on disinformation and pure BS from their own "union", it makes an independent union drive grow.

See above. Decisions are mostly information based. A shockingly high number of Delta pilots have decided that DALPA's information is mostly self-serving and sometimes totally false. Thus they've made the informed decision to go independent. Simple really.

And they've had the distinct disadvantage of a shoestring budget, constant attacks from the DALPA Special Committee and hostility from management who desperately wants ALPA to stay. And with all those disadvantages, 5,600 Delta pilots turned in a card. If DALPA wasn't so blindly arrogant, they'd be embarrassed by this clear message from their members.

ALPA will beat back any attempt at meaningful change. This is ALPA's turf and ALPA's ever changing rules...or just ignoring rules. It's not fixable. No possibility. Only an entrenched ALPA sycophant would call what DPA has done thus far unsuccessful. Whistling past the graveyard there dude. ALPA wouldn't fund a "Special Committee" to fight against an unsuccessful foe.

Carl

Splash

Were the Delta pilots "purposefully misinformed" when they ratified C2K?

Were the Northwest pilots "purposefully misinformed" when they ratified the 2004 pay rates?

Aren't those the rates you want restored?

Rates ratified by a "purposefully misinformed" pilot group should be restored? Why? Those guys were misinformed.

And how should we view the pilots who voted AGAINST those two contracts? Were they especially perceptive to have voted no? Were they manipulation-resistant?

Purple Drank

Say, whatever happened to "white papers?" Would you care to explain what they were and why they were banished?

ALPA completely squelched all alternate viewpoints on C12, in favor of an all-out propaganda blitz consisting of manufactured crises, partial truths, cherry-picked "best case" scenarios, and flat-out naiveté.

Why is ALPA afraid of a free and open debate--while providing full disclosure? Why not let us make an informed decision, rather than herd us like sheep?